Chinese Economics Thread

Equation

Lieutenant General
What most foreigners don't understand is the Chinese culture. I understand that European culture believes in achieving the goal through any means possible. But the Chinese values reputation very highly, almost to a perverted level. Something like this would degrade and taint the reputation of the nation and its government.
This would be like a bunch of grandpas ordering kids to steal bikes from other kids, which is dumb and highly unlikely.

However, another possibility is very likely to happen, which is coming from the angry youth within the population. This happens every time when some heated clashes between Sino-American relationships, such as the bombing of Chinese embassy in Belgrade, the spy plane collision in the South China Sea, the recent spy ship collision and so on. This is not just done in China, but in countless homes around the world, when angry youth are mad of other countries and want to take actions, they turn on their computers and began hacking.

The hacking Kroko was referring to is sensitive government data and files of high tech equipment's. Then again everybody is cheating and stealing from somebody else since the dawn of civilization. You don't think the US is trying to steal data on Chinese and Russian equipment at this time? Those companies to me seems like they want the public or tax payers to pay for their operating costs of doing business as far as that Bloomberg report goes.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
When I was a kid, I was told Westerners invented everything. As you grow older and read, that was a big lie. The US was in the same position during the industrial revolution as China is today. The Europeans would travel over to the US in the 1800s to sell what they had invented and found Americans had stolen their stuff and were selling it. The Chinese probably think because the West stole so much from China, they don't even think about it since the West never cared to think about it.

And the Chinese pretty much probably don't care about hacking and stealing in the cyber world because most likely the West is doing it too. Just because, as I heard an excuse, that the West probably does but they don't get valuable information which makes the difference. That's no excuse. If it weren't valuable, then they wouldn't bother doing it. So does that mean if someone were out to murder someone but was unsuccessful in the attempt, no crime was committed?

We always hear bold bragging that US spies and military Special Forces travel in and out of countries including China molesting them at will and "mission accomplished" every single time in whatever they were engaged in like it were a movie. And they're complaining about some Chinese nerd with coke-bottle glasses cyber-hacking?
 
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Schumacher

Senior Member
When I was a kid, I was told Westerners invented everything. As you grow older and read, that was a big lie. The US was in the same position during the industrial revolution as China is today. The Europeans would travel over to the US in the 1800s to sell what they had invented and found Americans had stolen their stuff and were selling it. The Chinese probably think because the West stole so much from China, they don't even think about it since the West never cared to think about it.
......................

That's true. The entire western civilization is built on a foundation of Chinese inventions.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
China Gets Revenge On Obama With Tariff On U.S. Autos
By Kenneth Rapoza | Forbes – Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:37 PM EST.. .

China Gets Revenge On Obama With Tariff On U.S. Autos

President Barack Obama hit China automobile tire makers with a trade tariff in 2009 and now Beijing has struck back with a potentially more punitive tariff, as much as a 21% tax hike on U.S. car exports bound for China, the world's largest auto market.

This week, the Chinese government upped the ante in the Obama-China trade dispute by surprisingly imposing new tariffs on imports of Honda and Cadillac models, Chrysler Jeep Grand Cherokee, the BMW X5 and X3 and Mercedes Benz models made in Michigan, Alabama and South Carolina. China argues that the U.S. provided illegal subsidies to these companies during the economic downturn in 2008 and is selling those vehicles cheaper in China than they are sold for in the U.S.

The U.S. exports around $92 billion worth of goods to China and cars account for around $4 billion of that. The tariffs, which range from just 2% to as much as 21.5% could impact $2.5 billion worth of American auto exports, according to preliminary estimates by the U.S-China Business Council, a Washington lobby.

China's Commerce Ministry announced the move shortly after the White House said it would ask the World Trade Organization to investigation Chinese restrictions on U.S. poultry exports, of all things. But more importantly, the U.S is also investigating whether Chinese exports of solar panels might have received illegal subsidies or have been dumped in the American market at prices below the cost of manufacturing them. This is a major sore spot for China because it views green tech as one of its core and most innovative developing markets. If the WTO punished China, it would have ramifications across the solar power industry the country does not want to deal with, especially in a slow growth environment. China is the world's leading producer of solar panels, so an attack on them by Washington raises red flags. What better market to go after in the U.S. than autos? The red dragon just blew a hot stream of fire across the Pacific Ocean, right on top of the White House.

US-China Business Council (USCBC) President John Frisbie said in a statement on Thursday that, "USCBC is just beginning to examine the Commerce Ministry’s announcement. We don’t have all the facts yet, but two things are worth noting. First, in 2010 the U.S. exported about $3.5 billion worth of motor vehicles to China and the amount this year is on pace reach nearly $4.5 billion. Motor vehicles impacted by these tariffs are probably in the neighborhood of 3% of all U.S. exports to China. The ability for American companies to export and sell cars to China is important."

China is a member of the WTO, but that doesn't mean member nations cannot take protectionist measures whenever they see fit. This opens up a host of legal battles and due diligence to see whether or not the tariffs are warranted. It's time consuming, and it's political. The Obama administration has not made any decision yet about consulting the WTO on the matter, but the House Ways and Means Committee, which has oversight of U.S. trade deals, is pushing for it.

Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp (R-MI), Ranking Member Sandy Levin (D-MI), Trade Subcommittee Chairman Kevin Brady (R-TX), and Trade Subcommittee Ranking Member Jim McDermott (D-WA) issued the following joint statement:

Committee Chairman Dave Camp (R-MI), Ranking Member Sandy Levin (D-MI), Trade Subcommittee Chairman Kevin Brady (R-TX), and Trade Subcommittee Ranking Member Jim McDermott (D-WA) said in a joint statement on Wednesday that, “We are extremely concerned by China’s announcement (to) impose new duties on U.S. auto exports. China’s actions are unjustifiable, and unfortunately, this appears to be just one more instance of impermissible Chinese retaliation against the United States and other trading partners. This action appears to violate China’s WTO commitments, and we urge the Administration to exercise all available options to enforce U.S. rights, including, as appropriate, enforcing U.S. rights at the World Trade Organization.”

Both parties within the Committee agree, which is a rarity in Washington these days.

Frisbie suggested that cooler heads prevail. "USCBC stresses that it is even more important to ensure trade remedy investigations are fact-based, follow internationally-accepted rules, be free of politics and not a substitute for retaliatory or protectionist actions,” he said.

I wonder if Apple would be next since Apple products in China are higher priced than in the US. If you want to go by the myths like how people believe everything "Made in China" means all the profits go to China, just imagine the slave labor in China used to make Apple products and then charging more than in the US to the people who were enslaved to make them.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Let's cool the rhetoric Assassin, talk of 'slavery' is simply nonsense.

The story you have posted is actually a good example of how far China has come since it first joined the WTO.

There is a famous story that back in 2006, when America threatened to file a complaint against China at the WTO over duties on linerboard, China lifted the duties the next working day.

Because of instances like that, the west, and America in particular, formed a rather ridiculous view of how China 'should' behave in the WTO, and now they are crying fowl when China decided to give them a taste of their own medicine.

Now that Russia has also joined the WTO, it would be interesting to watch and compare to see how they are treated and received when they inevitably push back on trade matters.

Who wants to bet that Russians won't draw this kind of hostility in America if they did something similar to what China is getting bashed for?
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Let's cool the rhetoric Assassin, talk of 'slavery' is simply nonsense.

The story you have posted is actually a good example of how far China has come since it first joined the WTO.

There is a famous story that back in 2006, when America threatened to file a complaint against China at the WTO over duties on linerboard, China lifted the duties the next working day.

Because of instances like that, the west, and America in particular, formed a rather ridiculous view of how China 'should' behave in the WTO, and now they are crying fowl when China decided to give them a taste of their own medicine.

Now that Russia has also joined the WTO, it would be interesting to watch and compare to see how they are treated and received when they inevitably push back on trade matters.

Who wants to bet that Russians won't draw this kind of hostility in America if they did something similar to what China is getting bashed for?

As I said... their words not mine. Just like the whole dispute with trade over China is based on the lie that everything coming from China, China is pocketing the the profits and not the foreign corporation outsourcing to China. Slave labor is their term not mine. Virtually every dispute on China about trade someone envokes China's advantage is through the use of slave labor. Critics of China in this thread have envoked it. So if anyone has a problem with the words I used, it's their terminology. Ironic how they use of the term "slave labor" is to envoke angry emotion. But use those words against the accusers and somehow that's crossing the line when it's being used in the exact same context.
 
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Lacrimosa

New Member
You need to learn to be less sensitive. We have entire threads of 'politics' here like
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/mem...n-accused-stabbing-s-korean-offical-5817.html
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/euro-crisis-5764.html

Not to mention 'political' posts disguised as a 'photo' posts.

And you need to follow the rules, not follow the rules whenever you feel like it.

Tu quoque as a proper point of argument also went out with kindergarten.
 

Lacrimosa

New Member
Russians have a different set of baggage they are burdened with, which has historical reasons as well as the fact that her economic structure is utterly different from China's - there is no mass Russian consumer goods export machine to be a convenient scapegoat, for example, but believe me they'll get their share of bashing, energy being the big thing on the menu.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Oh please, there is so much wrong with that statement I hardly know where to begin.

Not so far off the truth. What is the foundation of western civilization? Firearms, colonialism, and the Enlightenment. Firearms, that's an obvious one. Colonialism: Christopher and Ferdinand wouldn't be sailing anywhere without a compass. The Enlightenment began with Gutenberg's printing press. Guess what that used?
 
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