Chinese Economics Thread

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
So this is the reward for being USA attack dog. Loosing your trade and livelihood.


Donald Trump has awarded Scott Morrison a prestigious US military honour

US President Donald Trump has awarded Prime Minister Scott Morrison the Legion of Merit "for his leadership in addressing global challenges and promoting collective security".

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BlackWindMnt

Captain
Registered Member
Soft power matters. Its US soft power that is outdated. You need better things than that, No body gives a f--k to your moral obligation. You can morally stand up & sit down in your place. If you send your funny costume boys because you cant control your morality, we will go over there to your place & will control it for you.

The thing with software power its so abstract it can mean everything and it can mean absolutely nothing.
Just because South Korea creates K-pop doesn't mean I'm now willing or more supportive of defending South Korea.

Economics first, once you have enough wealth you can actually finance some cultural stuff.
Like that black myth: Wukong game, everybody in the west was like yeah this is what we want to see from Chinese game developers.
It will come in time in parts of the world that aren't in control of the US, because the US pretty much owns the information/data streams in their empire. Recommendation and search engine algorithms keep the data flow as clean as possible. If only 0.5% of the people see the "dirty" content you might just as well label it as censored. You see the same with retired western diplomats they are quiet free to write about their exploits in books, because nobody really reads those books.

The only people that are hunger for Chinese/Asian soft power in the west are the ones that want to be validated by white westerners.
Not be seen as second grade citizens in the west, same for that push to get more Asian on the screen in that corrupted pedophile nest called Hollywood.

/probably off topic..
 

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
You make some good points, but in today's world in order to develop its military power and develop its economy and become inseparable from the world in supply and demand, which you define as hard power... China needs soft power to do it.

If other countries hate China, then other countries will sanction China and refuse to trade with it and surround it with military containment strategies. Then China's economic success and military power will suffer over time, as well.

The intangible actually precedes and causes the tangible. For example, a company's assets are tangible, but before it acquires those assets it needs a business plan.. the intangible. The same is true for countries. They need a favorable environment to grow and develop their hard power. In 1978 China's economy was weak and its military was weak. So how did it grow? Because it increased its soft power by opening and reform, and by seeking good relations with other countries. The world's favorable perception of China in 1978 was the intangible which made possible the future tangibles. It was the soft power that made possible increasing hard power. If it had continued down the closed path of Mao and acted belligerently towards the West, it could not have succeeded as well as it did.

The reality is that China needs as many friends as it can get. Key decisions are being made in other countries, like whether to supply China with technology or allow China into their markets, or sign deals with China. Besides using its existing hard power to convince these countries, China also needs to increase person-to-person ties, improve its image, and overall improve its soft power. Otherwise all the money in the world is not going to help it, as we see countries that really hate China are willing to suffer major economic penalties and take irrational decisions just to hurt China, if China is too hated.
So other members have already expressed their views so I will try to give my 2 cents without too much reiteration of their points.

Let’s examine one point at a time... first, the company asset and business plan example... a business plan isn’t soft power/intangible thing... in fact the business plan example further reinforces my ‘intangible things without a tangible base will in the end become irrelevant’ argument... a business plan merely describes the tangible plan by which the company or entrepreneur intends to take in order to gain profits... in order words the business plan (intangible thing) requires the reality of the situation (tangible base) in order to have any real effect... for your example the idea of the business itself would be the intangible (soft power) absent the tangible base (hard power)... let’s take the social media as an example to explain my point... Facebook was not the first social media site in the world but it became the most powerful and most successful, while it predecessors failed why? Because Zack Zuckerberg understood how to use the idea of social media (intangible) in the world at the time (tangible base).

Next let’s examine the China opening up example... there is in fact a real life example in history already... if you remember the ROC... when it first came into existence it was weak... very weak... so it had no hard power but courted the western countries and had a fairly good relationship... it was willing to work with the foreign power and yield at certain things and was moving towards democracy and multi party system, so it had or was gaining some soft power... so by your logic the ROC at the time would have been in a prefect situation to leverage its soft power, it’s relationship with the western power to improve its hard power, right? But that didn’t happen it was seen as weak, which it was, and no amount of soft power did anything, to the point that it was later invaded by the Japanese, which at the time had enormous hard power, why? Because it had no hard power/tangible base to protect itself and the reality of the world at the time simply didn’t allow for its development, everyone else was concerned about their own lands and people, the situation or tangible state of affairs wasn’t in the ROC’s favour and no amount of soft power changed that... fast forward to 1978 the beginning of the ‘opening up’... it was a multitude of factors that made China what it is today... namely real changes in the economy, or in other words changes in the tangible, if you remember, back in those times China was still viewed as a backward country and to be frank rightfully so, as that was a fact... so in terms of soft power it wasn’t exactly doing very well... but what was pushing all the companies to China was the cheap labour, tangible/hard power, if you will, it was a change in the dynamics of hard power or it can be viewed as China using what hard power it possessed... having hard power doesn’t have to mean that China was already extremely powerful that other countries have to listen to them... hard power/tangible power can be economics or population or recourses or a better term benefits... foreign companies and countries working with China at the time gain real term benefits (a shift of hard power, for both China and the foreign companies or countries) by using cheap Chinese labour (hard/tangible power) so they can manufacture at a cheap cost whilst selling at the same price or in simpler terms gain more profits/cold hard cash! If your example of soft power being a powerful force of change was actually true... then China would have begun developing in the late 50s and early 60s after simp-soviet split, when the western power did everything to try to gain China as an ally against the Soviets... in some way that was a gain of huge soft power for China... but nothing really came out of it... not until the Chinese applied its limited hard power by using and leveraging it population.

I think there is a misunderstanding that having hard power must mean the one possessing hard power is the king of the world... no, using carrots is also a means of applying hard power... China merely leveraged what hard power it had (the economic power of cheap labour, which in fact was enormous, at least when population of concern China had real hard power and was very powerful at that) to incentivise (give the carrot) foreign companies to work with them... while the stick was the economic forces for the companies that wasn’t working with China, which China didn’t have to apply to the companies themselves... the only difference is the point of view...
 

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
Here is evidence: "Tommy Zwicky who was working as the Chinese firm's vice president for communications in Denmark for more than six months has quit. His resignation comes after internal Huawei documents were made public, which talked about an "Uyghur alarm" system that Huawei had worked on with a Chinese firm 'Megvii' that specialises in facial-recognition softwares, back in 2018."

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Same here:
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This has nothing to do with sanctions. It is solely moral approbation against Huawei for being connected to the CPC. Here is criticism of Huawei along similar lines:
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You really think the US would churn out all these articles if soft power doesn't matter? Of course it matters. No one is asking for begging. Just being strategic. Even the US which is the greatest hard power center in the world, elites understand the value of soft power and always have. That is why Hollywood churns out propaganda every day.
From all the articles I have seen about this Uyghur alarm... it seems to just be a system that can differentiate ethnicity... so because Uyghur is an ethnicity therefore bam... Uyghur alarm... even in the CNBC article the claim of ‘Uyghur alarm’ was coin by a third party with conflicting interests... they say this is wrong of China but doesn’t seem to have any problems with mass surveillance in the west and in fact seems to be helping and gain benefits from its analysis...

As part of the trial, a feature called “Uyghur alert” was tested. Another feature of the software was able to determine “ethnicity” as part of its “face attribute analysis,” according to the report by IPVM.

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IPVM is the world's leading source of video surveillance information and online training. Dedicated to independent and objective information, we uniquely refuse any and all advertisement, sponsorship and consulting from manufacturers. We provide the best video surveillance analysis, testing and training for thousands of members globally.

Your examples of using the Vice President of Communication and a footballer is interesting... both positions are essentially about soft power only when it relates to Huawei... in the case of Vice President of Communication... it is a PR job, most of these people are only concerned about reputation, brand and personal image... so it a management of PR... so of course he is going to have problems and it would be hell in this job... you might be interested to know he joined the company in Jul 2020... since these Uyghur alarm accusations came in 2018 a good year and half to 2 years prior... where was moral integrity then?

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For the footballer... their livelihood after their football career is all about PR... so it was the hard power to personal benefits that pushed for this decision...
 

OppositeDay

Senior Member
Registered Member
From all the articles I have seen about this Uyghur alarm... it seems to just be a system that can differentiate ethnicity... so because Uyghur is an ethnicity therefore bam... Uyghur alarm... even in the CNBC article the claim of ‘Uyghur alarm’ was coin by a third party with conflicting interests... they say this is wrong of China but doesn’t seem to have any problems with mass surveillance in the west and in fact seems to be helping and gain benefits from its analysis...



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Your examples of using the Vice President of Communication and a footballer is interesting... both positions are essentially about soft power only when it relates to Huawei... in the case of Vice President of Communication... it is a PR job, most of these people are only concerned about reputation, brand and personal image... so it a management of PR... so of course he is going to have problems and it would be hell in this job... you might be interested to know he joined the company in Jul 2020... since these Uyghur alarm accusations came in 2018 a good year and half to 2 years prior... where was moral integrity then?

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For the footballer... their livelihood after their football career is all about PR... so it was the hard power to personal benefits that pushed for this decision...

An automated system to track ethnicity is much preferable to the widespread post-Urumqi riot practices of local policemen knocking on the doors of Uyghur guests whenever they check in a hotel. Indeed hopefully such a system can be widely implemented as an non-intrusive way of satisfying the government's desire for control.
 
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OppositeDay

Senior Member
Registered Member
China's soft power is okay for its level of development. In terms of inflation adjusted GDP per capita China is where South Korea was in 1990, and Chinese pop culture is certainly far more influential than 1990 South Korea.

Rather than worrying too much about China's image in the West, focus on 1) China's image in the developing world, especially SEA and 2) diminish the West's soft power in China. This year the West has been doing a fantastic job of self-destruction but China shouldn't rely on the West to do its job. Learn from Western propaganda against China and use them against the West in China. Australia is a good practice target. Make sure that in the future when a Chinese thinks of Australian wine this would first come to mind:
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localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
Despite accounting scandal, Luckin' Coffee is makin' money.

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Urban Chinese youth need to stop trynna be posers, so much good tea in china.

Shit coffee is overpriced as hell in China


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CCP created these monopolies, gotta take responsibility
 
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