Chinese Economics Thread

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
Sorry for the interruption...Dear political scientists out there,

And this is only the begining of the new era
Yeah, exactly, agree completely.

China is not interested in playing this soft power game.

It is totally pointless for the Chinese Communist Party to adopt to this point.

What the CCP is doing and planning is entirely different strategy.

Soft power from the Americans is just subversion, trying to get others to do their own dirty work.

Chairman Mao is long gone. No more soft power from China for generations.
 

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
Problem is the West constantly tries to ruin the image of Chinese to make it more costly for Chinese to do business.
But I guess we will only get stronger?
"
China has been the largest exporter of goods in the world since 2009.
Official estimates suggest the country’s total
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amounted to $2.641 trillion in 2019.2 In 2013, China became the largest trading nation in the world. The United States previously held that position. "


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Since 2009, the Chinese economic footprint on the world has only gotten, bigger and bigger and bigger.

The hostility of certain voices in the west, only proves that China has gotten bigger and bigger and bigger.

It is too late to reverse these trends.
 

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
Well, you know, if China goes back to make exporting Chinese soft power as a goal, such as when Chairman Mao tried to export ideology such as communism, then we have to expect the same to happen this time too.

The Chinese Communist Party would export the soft power of authoritarianism, and state capitalism. And maybe a couple of pandas here and there.

China is interested in the outside world, but not that interested.

:p
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
In the end we have to ask ourselves as Chinese, what do we want to be known for?

Do we want to be known for pretty boys and anime? Or do we want to be known for economic and military dominance?

I personally want to be respected. Which garnishes more respect?


It's like those Civ games, there's more than 1 way to win. You never win at everything. Your success and strength automatically instills jealousy and fear in others. A pimp isn't respected for being nice.
 

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
@gadgetcool5 @Petrolicious88 @Wangxi

Seriously, I think you guys are confusing the roles and importance of soft power and hard power.

Let’s start with the example of the Soviet Union, the Union collapsed primarily due to unsustainable economics... the Soviets model of planned economy basically meant that it couldn’t develop economically, whilst at the same time spend enormous amount of resources on ‘soft-power’ propping like-minded countries like Cuba by buying their exports which it had no need for. Under their model no matter what soft power they might have had... the reality of the situation which was a broken economy in this case, resulting in the lack of hard power, which would cause any soft power (propaganda) it might have had to fail, determined its fate.

Next, the British Empire... the Americans fought a war of independence and had the help of the French. The British couldn’t dedicate the amount of resources needed to retake America whilst fending off other European powers. If they tried it would have collapsed long before it’s actual eventual collapse at the end of War World 2 where it couldn’t afford to keep the empire anymore due to economics... again hard power at play.

The Chinese people’s worship of America is a continuation of their worship of western powers... which forced the then Qing into a situation of desperation through multiple wars and invasions... eventually leading to the collapse of the Qing and rise of ROC... further there is also the fact that America was the one that finally destroyed imperial Japan, liberated and returned Chinese lands... this also a result of hard power. Additionally, after WW2 there were no challengers to America thus their soft power can develop to what it is today, the fact that any country or company that could challenge it has been subdued or destroyed is also a result of the hard power that America possesses.

On the part about Chinese companies gaining market share or Chinese investments abroad mainly OBOR... it is all about benefits... in other words economics... the client countries gain in real terms... for example Chinese companies gaining market share is a result of the products it brings to market, which is a result of designs and production, which in itself a result of gains in education and economics, and that is a result of investments or FDI which in itself is also economics... Chinese companies investing in other countries, like what other countries have brought to China, brings jobs, taxes and economics activities to the client country... all of which is a result of hard power.

American economic success and subsequent technology development is partly a result of its geography and the resulting hard power after WW2... no other power could remotely challenge them for at least 4 decades... during which they built up their continued dominance... you will most likely bring up the Korean War and Vietnam War... so for the Korean War, the stalemate was a result of a mix of an incompetent commander, geopolitical factors and economics... it wasn’t worth continuing the fight for Korea if it meant a direct conflict with the Soviets, it was cost and benefit analysis and the Vietnam War was America internal conflict and again it wasn’t worthwhile continuing the fight if it meant a deterioration of the American homeland.

Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., Nelson Mandela, etc they are great people who had a lot of soft power true... but their the great deeds, liberation of India, emancipation of African American and emancipation of Black South African were the result of a great deal of other factors... all of which ended up predicated on hard power and the realities of the time... I am NOT trying to minimise their roles but if the real situation was not as bad as they were no matter what soft power they had, it would have been irrelevant... you can even say the same with Mao, if the economic situation of farmers in rural China wasn’t as bad as they were at the time, the support he could have gained (via soft power) wouldn’t have been anywhere near the level it ended up as.

There are also examples among the western democracies themselves namely the Japanese and French examples... America was able to do anything it wanted due to its hard power in economics (market access) and military (weaponry and dependence on military alliance)... nowadays however we are starting to see push back because of the rise of China as more and more countries slowly shift their positions despite the huge and overwhelming soft power against it, this is partly due to the reality of the situation and tangible benefits To these countries, in other words, hard power overpowering soft power, there is also the actions of America that has cause tangible detrimental effects in their supposed allies and friends as a result of America applying both its hard and soft power in a world that is no longer as simple as it was in the Cold War where there was a real tangible (hard power) enemy in the form of the Soviets...

Japan is also a great example of how hard power is far more important then soft power... Japan has great soft power from its history, traditions and culture, any thing from its traditional shrines, Samurai and ninja culture, Kimonos and food to modern culture like games, manga, anime and even porn, soft power built over the last 4-6 decades but when China over took it as the second largest economy in the world... no matter what soft power it has... it’s pointless because they don’t bring tangible benefits

India as others have pointed out is the same... It has its history, traditions and culture, as well as its fake news mill and Bollywood but how much of that does it change the views of companies and countries when dealing with them, just because the news don’t mention the bad parts to fool the average person, it doesn’t mean it has any influence in tangible terms for companies and countries... no matter the soft power it has built... as long as it’s hard power in the form of its economy cannot keep up it is pointless

As long as China continues its current course, develop its military power to protect itself from all others and develop its economy to become even more inseparable from the world, both as supply and demand... the reality of the situation (hard and tangible power) will overpower any soft power the world can throw at it, further it will influence and affect China’s soft power as the countries dealing with them have no choice but change their views... There were mentions of YouTubers and academics that bring a positive view of China to the world... let me ask this, would these people have a positive view on China, if the reality of China wasn’t anywhere as positive as their view of it actually is... the Soviets tried and failed precisely because the reality didn’t match their propaganda and the reality for all to see. I think it would be easier to understand if you view hard power as tangible and soft power as intangible... unlike religion when it comes to business and geopolitics, where benefits means everything, intangible things that have no tangible base will in the end become irrelevant...
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
If China achieve its goal of a Comprehensive National Power(2030) then we talk about it's SOFT POWER. Nation like people usually gravitates to who is rich, capable and attractive. The frequent demonization of China is a start, it shows the acknowledge at this stage of China development the potential to be one. So for those who advocate a tough respond will only fall to the trap set up by the American. If we fall for it , it justify their narratives. Now in terms of soft power we had a lot offer, in our 5,000 years of history, we had spread our influence and Nation adopt some of our culture.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
China is already on track to achieve significant hard power in economy and military. It hasn’t been able to transition that into soft power though.
Incorrect. China has far more soft power extending from its increases in hard power than it ever had in the past. Of course, you don't really seem to know which is which so I'm not sure what kind of "soft power" you mean. China's soft power that extends from its hard power, in Asia today, both in cultural penetrance and in respect would be unthinkable 20-30 years ago, especially in SEA. However, the real breakthrough, as I said before, comes when the stage that China has built with its hard power overcomes the rival stage that the US built. Before that, gains will be modest, but once China hard power reaches a point where its clear that it is more powerful than the US, then you will see some truly explosive gains in "soft power" as the Chinese voice becomes louder, globally dominant, and the one heard by default. Before then, it's still something you have to strain to hear over America's dominant global volume.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
If China achieve its goal of a Comprehensive National Power(2030) then we talk about it's SOFT POWER. Nation like people usually gravitates to who is rich, capable and attractive. The frequent demonization of China is a start, it shows the acknowledge at this stage of China development the potential to be one. So for those who advocate a tough respond will only fall to the trap set up by the American. If we fall for it , it justify their narratives. Now in terms of soft power we had a lot offer, in our 5,000 years of history, we had spread our influence and Nation adopt some of our culture.

Completely agree A lot of people here suffer from serious inferiority complex and they like the west to like them But that is losing preposition as the west see China as their competitor and threat to their dominant position that give them entitlement like dollar as reserve currency. They will never like China add to that the tinge of racism It become mission of impossible

So trying to gain favor with them is wasting effort. And as you say China was dominant from middle age to the age of discovery and has spread her influence to the surrounding countries by adopting her culture and philosophy. All without invasion and enslavery of other people A record that all Chinese should be proud of. It will come back naturally when China reached the comprehensive national power in 2035. China should just keep doing what she had done sofar improving living standard of her people, helping other countries overcome backwardness and try to live in peace Softpower will come naturally just like it did during heyday of Tang, Ming etc

So I don't know what is the fuzz with soft power incidently coin by Nye He is believer in American exceptionalism that is why he coin this terminology. But lately I haven't heard him saying anything for the obvious reason of declining American exceptionalism under Trump
 
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ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Completely agree A lot of people here suffer from serious inferiority complex and they like the west to like them But that is losing preposition as the west see China as their competitor and threat to their dominant position that give them entitlement like dollar as reserve currency. They will never like China add to that the tinge of racism It become mission of impossible

So trying to gain favor with them is wasting effort. And as you say China was dominant from middle age to the age of discovery and has spread her influence to the surrounding countries by adopting her culture and philosophy. All without invasion and enslavery of other people A record that all Chinese should be proud of. It will come back naturally when China reached the comprehensive national power in 2035. China should just keep doing what she had done sofar improving living standard of her people, helping other countries overcome backwardness and try to live in peace Softpower will come naturally just like it did during heyday of Tang, Ming etc

So I don't know what is the fuzz with soft power incidently coin by Nye He is believer in American exceptionalism that is why he coin this terminology. But lately I haven't heard him saying anything for the obvious reason of declining American exceptionalism under Trump
Hi Hendrik_2000

Happy we're on the same page bro, Additionally China can advertise it's peaceful rise as an alternative to America hard power. Thru our history we never subjugate our neighbors, we peacefully coexist, that itself is a major manifestation of CHINA SOFT POWER.
 
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