Chinese Economics Thread

Martian

Senior Member
Re: China's recent important victories at the WTO

Thats stupid logic, I could argue the same way on behalf of America but I wont because first and foremost all members are supposed to abide by any WTO rulings.

AS regards the question of Rare Earths China might want to be a bit careful as the biggest deposits/ reserves are in countries friendlier to the West and there will come a time when China may want some of it.

You have a very idealistic view of the WTO and its rulings. I suggest that you read the saga of the U.S.-Canadian softwood lumber dispute that occurred for nine years from 2001 to 2009. The United States ignores WTO rulings that it doesn't like.

The United States has a tendency to respect WTO rulings in China's favor, because the U.S. is trying to avoid a tit-for-tat protectionism against another heavyweight trading nation. China has leverage.

For example, China does not have to play nice and it could continue to exclude all foreign companies from most government contracts. This is perfectly legal under WTO rules. Instead, China is voluntarily opening up significant portions of its government procurements to foreign companies. "Chinese officials estimate that such procurement contracts exceeded $100 billion in 2009."

Quite frankly, China is merely following in the U.S.'s footsteps and behavior. The young lion learns from the aging lion.

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" * On May 27, 2003, the World Trade Organization (WTO) issued a non-binding ruling in Canada's favour with regard to U.S. anti-dumping duties. The decision was appealable to a NAFTA panel.[4]

* On August 13, 2003, a North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) Chapter 19 panel ruled that the tariff is too high, although noting at the same time that the Canadian lumber industry is subsidized.

* On January 19, 2004, the WTO Appellate Body (AB) issued a final ruling with respect to the countervailing duty determination. The AB decided largely in Canada's favor (WTO Dispute 257).

* On August 11, 2004, the Appellate Body issued a final ruling with respect to U.S. anti-dumping duties (WTO Dispute 264).[1]

* On April 15, 2005, the Canadian Minister of Trade announced that the federal government would provide Canadian softwood lumber associations $20 million in compensation for their legal expenses stemming from the dispute with the United States.

* Another NAFTA Chapter 19 panel reviewed the determination made by the International Trade Commission that the U.S. lumber industry was under a threat of injury because of Canadian imports. Since the U.S. acceded to the World Trade Organization, it is necessary for the U.S. government to establish that a domestic industry is suffering injury or faces a threat of injury before countervailing duties can be imposed. U.S. law had required an injury determination for antidumping duties even before its accession to the WTO. The NAFTA Chapter 19 panel found the International Trade Commission's determination invalid. In addition, the panel took the controversial decision of refusing to allow the International Trade Commission to reopen the administrative record and in fact ordered the International Trade Commission to issue a negative determination after it reached another affirmative determination based on the existing record. Unlike the Lumber III panel, however, this panel's decision was unanimous. However, the U.S. government challenged its decision before an extraordinary challenge committee.

* In the meantime, because of an adverse WTO decision, the international trade commission reopened the administrative record pursuant to a special provision in U.S. law, the so-called Section 129 provision, and issued a new affirmative threat of injury determination in December 2004. This new determination allowed the countervailing and antidumping duty tariffs to remain in place.

* On August 10, 2005, the NAFTA extraordinary challenge committee unanimously held against the United States finding that NAFTA panel's decision were not sufficiently invalid to require vacatur or remand under the standards of NAFTA.

* On August 15, 2005, the U.S. said it would not abide by the NAFTA decision because the Section 129 determination superseded the decision being reviewed by the NAFTA panel. This announcement prompted former Finance Minister Ralph Goodale to say that Peterson is considering Canada's options, which could include litigation or trade sanctions."
 
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bladerunner

Banned Idiot
You mean like how China is the villain sending "unlimited" chicken to defenseless Americans when its the US with the chicken trade surplus to China? You didn't make a mistake with figures. You made them up. What does that tell you?

I never presented any figures I went by the remarks made by the Chinese official commenting on the ruling He said they could see exports up to 150,000 tons, but there was no mention that it would stop at that if they improved their capacity is there? and note how their annual sales are increasing $860 mil tom 870 mil LOL.

"Ma expressed confidence that once the ruling comes into effect it will boost exports of finished chicken products. “We expect to start seeing modest annual export volumes of 100,000 to 150,000 tons of finished chicken products valued at around $500-750 million roughly. It will in no way impact US poultry farmers or manufacturers of finished products,” he said.

In 2009, China exported poultry products worth $870 million or 291,272 tons, compared with $860 million in 2008. It imported 799,600 tons of chicken products globally in 2008."
 
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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
When the charge is that China can send "unlimited" amounts of chicken to the US as if Americans are victims of evil Chinese unfairness when the truth is it is the complete opposite where it's the US that has the trade surplus on chicken exports to China, you fabricated it. No matter how you want to spin it, if you were speaking from the truth, you wouldn't have to lie to make your point. I don't care about what figures you come up with because when the US has a trade surplus in chicken with China, it doesn't matter how much chicken you say China is exporting because the US sends far more to China. That's what a trade surplus in chicken means.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
When the charge is that China can send "unlimited" amounts of chicken to the US as if Americans are victims of evil Chinese unfairness when the truth is it is the complete opposite where it's the US that has the trade surplus on chicken exports to China, you fabricated it. No matter how you want to spin it, if you were speaking from the truth, you wouldn't have to lie to make your point. I don't care about what figures you come up with because when the US has a trade surplus in chicken with China, it doesn't matter how much chicken you say China is exporting because the US sends far more to China. That's what a trade surplus in chicken means.

Geez are you being henpecked at home or something
Im not bothered with Chinese chicken exports, the thrust of my posts are gernerally directed at the WTO WTO
The term to "unlimited chicken exports"was in comparison to restricted japanese rice imports from post 1351 "But my main point is, thats its very different to the unlimited amount of chicken China can export to the U.S".
and 1356

or1356"To show some consistency they should be telling Japan to cut out the nonsense and open the market completely in the same way they have told the U.S. to do towards Chinese chicken imports.
Nowhere in those post do I ever mention it as being a threat or all the other things you have dreamed up.
 
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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
You shot your credibility down to absurdity. Next time you make charges... show proof. Unlimited Chinese chicken exports to the US as you charge is 180 degrees from the truth. So who do you think has the problem? I'm sure one that is use to lying all the time thinks nothing of their lies.
 
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bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Re: China's recent important victories at the WTO

You have a very idealistic view of the WTO and its rulings. I suggest that you read the saga of the U.S.-Canadian softwood lumber dispute that occurred for nine years from 2001 to 2009. The United States ignores WTO rulings that it doesn't like.

Im well aware that countries U.S.included resort to dirty tricks to fend off rulings they dont like. Heck they wont (or didnt) let us export lamb to the U.S.
It really goes to show that the WTO is about as useless as the U.N.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
You shot your credibility down to absurdity. Next time you make charges... show proof. Unlimited Chinese chicken exports to the US as you charge is 180 degrees from the truth. So who do you think has the problem? I'm sure one that is use to lying all the time thinks nothing of their lies.

Hey pal for god knows how many times as I said my post was never directed at China and its frustrated chicken exports so if you know what the exact tonnage they are allowed to export then tell me and ill apologise and change it.

However I do recall it was China that put a punitive tarriff on American Chicken imports and the U.S did have a reasonable excuse for their ban bird flu and all that
 
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Maggern

Junior Member
Re: China's recent important victories at the WTO

You have a very idealistic view of the WTO and its rulings. I suggest that you read the saga of the U.S.-Canadian softwood lumber dispute that occurred for nine years from 2001 to 2009. The United States ignores WTO rulings that it doesn't like.

WTO and the UN are efficient to some degree. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Would it be idealistic to believe that most people follow traffic signals without the police breathing down their necks, when so many people worldwide break them? If it was, should we should throw the whole traffic system on the garbage pile? People are breaking them all the time anyway?
 

Martian

Senior Member
Re: China's recent important victories at the WTO

Im well aware that countries U.S.included resort to dirty tricks to fend off rulings they dont like. Heck they wont (or didnt) let us export lamb to the U.S.
It really goes to show that the WTO is about as useless as the U.N.

I agree with you that international rules should theoretically be followed by every country. However, China is the U.S.'s best student. I have read Chinese government white papers that studied American government white papers (e.g. examining benefits of building a national highway system).

I am afraid that China will look like the United States, when she grows up into an economic superpower of over $10 trillion in five years. Smart superpowers study their predecessor and use the same effective tactics. Using your analogy, the United States has flexed its power as the most powerful permanent member of the U.N. Security Council. As the understudy, China has learned valuable lessons from the United States and will also learn to flex her power (e.g. a la United States version 2.0).
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Re: China's recent important victories at the WTO

Hey pal for god knows how many times as I said my post was never directed at China and its frustrated chicken exports so if you know what the exact tonnage they are allowed to export then tell me and ill apologise and change it.

However I do recall it was China that put a punitive tarriff on American Chicken imports and the U.S did have a reasonable excuse for their ban bird flu and all that

Why did you bring it up then and it turned out to be a complete fabrication on your part? Directly or indirectly doesn't change you charging it was fact. Where did you get that completely off the mark information from? You just made it up. That's where it's from because again there's no way you could have mistaken that information. You were talking about other countries and their unfair trade and somehow you wanted to lump in China by bringing up chicken out of nowhere.
 
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