Chinese Economics Thread

[bladerunner]

Yeah I highly doubt any of the world's economies would agree to a notion that worldwide free trade is not profitable in the long run (except for those who have economies in ruins).....

Hendrik was suggesting that the Chinese juggernaught is now unstoppable. If true , in due course Norway may not retain what it chooses to be selectively good at because China will dominate that that as well if it so chooses . So where will you be then.
Have a look at this article:

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Futhermore have you noticed how the countries that maintained a sound manufacturing base, weathered this financial downturn better.

I dont think "protectionism" is a dirty word because its important to many nations throughout the world, that have smaller(not necessarily failed economies) or are part of the developing world. The totally free markets in developed economies like America, China and others would have a field day, repatriating massive profits while ruining the local competition.

Recently a member posted an article concerning China and Columbia's intended trade ties. Columbia exports minerals in exhange for textiles etc. Good for China maybe but not for Columbia who currently supposedly have a two billion trade deficit with China as well as a ravaged textile industry because of cheap Chinese imports. Futhermore wasn't that approach adopted by the imperial powers of the 19th century towards Africa and thoroughly discredited?

Anyway if the one size fits all approach adopted by the WTO is so wonderful, why do countries like China USA and co feel a continued need to develop regional trade deals with selected countries/regions of their choosing?.

IMO they secretly know that the WTO is failing and open to manipiulation? So theyve decided it is better to also have multilateral or unilateral trade agreements that can be created so that all the countries involved can behave as free or as realist as they want.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Threaten to leave the WTO? Sort of like the UN. Do it! It reminds of those who think they can beat China military so easily. Why don't they do it then? It's because it doesn't matter how much they think the other side will suffer. What does matter and is they'll suffer themselves enough where they won't do it.

Again what are all the Chinese made products that create an imbalance in the world? Foreign corporations exploiting cheap labor and so-called manipulation for their own profit. That's the big manipulation of the truth. A lot of the popular electronics that they say suffer from supply cuts because of the Japan earthquake are "made in China." How is there a threat on supply when supposedly it's 100% made in China? The lie they don't tell you is China is just the end of a long manufacturing line of a lot of parts made in a lot of countries. So the big manipulating lie is all of it is made in China and China makes all the profits when an iPad2 is sold in the US when the fact is the total cost to make it on China's part only amounts to maybe 5%. Oh yeah China's manipulation of 5% of the cost is creating the imbalance in the world and an unfair advantage.

 

[bladerunner]

So in all cases they are only at the end of the production line and only make 5% huh?Glad to told that Hendrik,Martian and Blitzo are day dreaming. But I dont think 'Sany' or the Chinese makers of "HSR" will think much of your contention that Chinese companies only produce 5% of the manufactured product.

 

[Blitzo]

So in all cases they are only at the end of the production line and only make 5% huh?Glad to told that Hendrik and Blitzo are day dreaming. But I dont think 'Sany' or the makers of Cinese HSR will think much of your contention that Chinese companies only produce 5% of the manufactured product.

... What? I said China would have to focus on retaining manufacturing while moving to higher end sources of growth and that includes higher end manufacturing...
How is that day dreaming when we all know most of the manufacturing is low end and is for foreign companies, it's not like that somehow means the country's economic growth isn't real or something...

 

[AssassinsMace]

So in all cases they are only at the end of the production line and only make 5% huh?Glad to told that Hendrik,Martian and Blitzo are day dreaming. But I dont think 'Sany' or the Chinese makers of "HSR" will think much of your contention that Chinese companies only produce 5% of the manufactured product.

The ones that are complained about are. China doesn't own all those products Americans complain about being made in China. Foreign corporations do. So the big lie and manipulation is saying they are. It's already estimated that 50%-60% of the products that are stamped made in China are for foreign corporations. So another big lie is saying all that profit Americans pay for "Made in China" products goes back to China. China doesn't own Apple. So how do the liars explain how does the profits from selling an iPhone or iPad2 that is "Made in China" go to China?
No Western country has bought Chinese HSR. Sany doesn't compete with the big names especially in the Western world. So how does Chinese HSR or Sany contribute to the imbalance in the world?

 

[bladerunner]

... What? I said China would have to focus on retaining manufacturing while moving to higher end sources of growth and that includes higher end manufacturing...
How is that day dreaming when we all know most of the manufacturing is low end and is for foreign companies, it's not like that somehow means the country's economic growth isn't real or something...

My mistake then. I didnt read your original post but just your one worder "snap" in Reply to Hendrik. and secondly I was just being sarcastic regarding the "5%" and "juggernaught".

 

[bladerunner]

And who are these people that say profits made from Apple products go to China, certainly not Steve Jobs.
I never said Sany contributed towards any imbalance. Im merely said that they would be pleased to learn that you reckon that they as Chinese companies, only make 5% of the finished product. All the other bits and pieces are imported right? (chuckle)

 

[AssassinsMace]

Everyone complaining about Made in China. What products are they complaining about then if not such popular electronics such as iPhones and iPad2s? What hot 100% Chinese products out there is all the rage creating a world imbalance? Then you have to wonder if everything is so imbalance in China's favor, why do these foreign corporations bother outsourcing to China? Maybe the old "China put a gun to my head" excuse? That's what they mean when they say China stole jobs and is manipulating its currency. China must be forcing them into these unprofitable ventures. Then that brings up why haven't they started a war because that would be an act of war if it really went down that way. So why hasn't it? Because they're lying.

And I never said that everything made in China is only 5% percent Chinese. The products people complain about being made in China are only about 5% of the cost because they are owned by foreign corporations. In the US you don't see many Chinese brand names because they are not a competing product in the US. Meaning no one buys them as much as the big brand names that outsource and exploit cheap labor in China. So the truly Chinese products where the profits go back to China don't factor in the imbalance or manipulation.

Can anyone explain how the Japan earthquake they say is holding up a lot of popular electronics when everything is supposedly 100% made all in China creating a world imbalance? No matter how they spin it, they're lying. You can't say China makes everything if the Japan earthquake has cut the supply line. Maybe people lie for dramatic effect.

 

[Maggern]

Hendrik was suggesting that the Chinese juggernaught is now unstoppable. If true , in due course Norway may not retain what it chooses to be selectively good at because China will dominate that that as well if it so chooses . So where will you be then.
Have a look at this article:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Futhermore have you noticed how the countries that maintained a sound manufacturing base, weathered this financial downturn better.

I dont think "protectionism" is a dirty word because its important to many nations throughout the world, that have smaller(not necessarily failed economies) or are part of the developing world. The totally free markets in developed economies like America, China and others would have a field day, repatriating massive profits while ruining the local competition.

Recently a member posted an article concerning China and Columbia's intended trade ties. Columbia exports minerals in exhange for textiles etc. Good for China maybe but not for Columbia who currently supposedly have a two billion trade deficit with China as well as a ravaged textile industry because of cheap Chinese imports. Futhermore wasn't that approach adopted by the imperial powers of the 19th century towards Africa and thoroughly discredited?

Anyway if the one size fits all approach adopted by the WTO is so wonderful, why do countries like China USA and co feel a continued need to develop regional trade deals with selected countries/regions of their choosing?.

IMO they secretly know that the WTO is failing and open to manipiulation? So theyve decided it is better to also have multilateral or unilateral trade agreements that can be created so that all the countries involved can behave as free or as realist as they want.

Protectionism is negative, but in certain sectors it's seen as necessary. It is always a strain on the economy as either 1) it is driven by subsidies, which is sucked out of the public budget, or 2) it is driven by blocking cheaper and/or better products from abroad, which drives up prices and/or quality of products down.

The notion of free-market includes (though is usually omitted by Americans) measures to ensure that no one actor becomes dominant. Dominant actors influence the market in such a way as to ruin the free-market process, as in e.g. a monopoly situation. Thus having huge international corporations coming in and crushing local competition is after a certain point (at which competition is no longer efficient) NOT a free-market process.

Furthermore even if China could produce all goods cheaper and better than any other country in the world, it still would mean everyone had a comparative advantage over China, meaning total production and efficiency would go up if China moved certain industries abroad. The world economy (and the US economy) would actually be better off in the long run if the US allowed more of its heavy industries to be moved to China (which they do much better, labor-intensive work), while concentrating more on the service and financial industries. Of course, now you get all kinds of counter-arguments relating to culture, economic safety nets, local politics, education levels etc etc. But this is the principle at least.

Manipulating the WTO? Sure. It is a loose organization with no central authority. Countries become members at their own wish and leave if they want. It is based purely on the reciprocated wish for free trade and reduced barriers.

The reason why regional trade agreements seems favored by China and the US is that
1) Neigbouring countries usually share culture and historic links, which means they are more open to economic cooperation (as opposed to 'the China Threat' in US economic culture)
2) Their economies are geographically close, which means they are proportionally hugely more important markets than some obscure country at the other side of the world
3) Huge economies like China and the US are surrounded by smaller markets that are easier to dominate, which is good for the US and China in the short term (though not for the others)

In the end I think that although regional economic cooperation is important, the WTO remains important as well, as it is the embodiment of the free market idea. If it failed, something else would come in its stead filling the same role (much like the UN came in to fill the hole after the League of Nations). One can exist with the other.

 

[Martian]

China Has Overtaken North America As World’s Largest LCD TV Market

Haier LCD TV

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"China Has Overtaken North America As World’s Largest LCD TV Market
By Jonathan Sutton • Wednesday, 23 March 2011, 12:05 am UTC

North America is no longer the largest market for sales of LCD TV displays in the world. The throne now belongs to China, according to the most recent data from Korean market research and consulting firm Displaybank. Within the Chinese LCD television market, LED-backlit models enjoyed healthy growth last year, but shipment of 3D-capable sets remained sluggish.

Each month, Seoul-headquartered Displaybank updates its Monthly LCD TV Supply Chain report that monitors the global shipments of flat-screen televisions. Its latest publication subtitled “Chinese Brands” revealed that in 2010, the demand for LCD TVs in China stood at 39 million units, constituting 21% of the worldwide market share. As a result, the region has surpassed North America (which claimed a 19% share last year) as the world’s biggest LCD TV market.

Local TV manufacturers dominated the scene in China: the top six Chinese companies – Haier, Konka, Changhong, Skyworth, TCL and Hisense – made up three-quarters of the total LCD TV market share in China. Given the nation’s thirst for flat-panel LCD televisions, it is hardly surprisingly to discover that these six TV makers are responsible for 15% of the global TV panel shipment in 2010.

In terms of supplying TFT LCD panels to these six Chinese TV brands, Taiwanese corporation Chimei Innolux (CMI) led with a 32% share, followed by Korean HDTV manufacturers LG and Samsung at 21% and 18% respectively. More than half of the LCD panels used in TVs sold by the six Chinese firms came from Taiwan (representing a year-on-year increase of five percentage points), whereas Korea-based vendors accounted for 39% of the panels (which is down 3pp Y/Y).

Technology-wise, the proportion of TFT LCD panel modules equipped with LED backlight unit (BLU) grew strongly from 1% in 2009 to 11% last year. However, shipment of LCD panels boasting 3D capabilities remained low – only 30,000 units of such modules were acquired by Chinese TV makers in 2010. Looking forward though, Displaybank expects consumer demand for 3D TV sets to rise sharply in China this year due to a concerted push by the industry."