Brumby
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There is no concept of god in Buddhism - period. Mahayana is simply a fusion of beliefs incorporating local ones. I think they get around this by using bodhisattva to cater to local deities such as in the case with Guanyin.
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There is no concept of god in Buddhism - period. Mahayana is simply a fusion of beliefs incorporating local ones. I think they get around this by using bodhisattva to cater to local deities such as in the case with Guanyin.
SamuraiBlue
Captain
No it is not a Chinese deity it's origin lies in the middle east. The origin of Guanyin in one theory is said to be Siva, others claim the origin is the goddess Anahita from Zoroastrianism.
Whichever the case, it was an avatar to the concept of salvation and the script teaches on how people can obtain it.
SamuraiBlue
Captain
I did a lot of study on this.
Mahāyāna Buddhism start around 700 years after when Budda passed into the next realm.
There is a parallel in relationship between Judaism - Christianity and Mahāyāna Buddhism - Theravada Buddhism. In which Judaism you had to be Jewish to be saved where as in Chistianity everyone will be saved by believing god's word.
In Theravada Buddhism you must shed all mortal sins to obtain entrance to Nirvana where as in Mahāyāna Buddhism the monks will pray for everyone to be saved.
Mahāyāna Buddhism first went to the middle east entering now Afghanistan and then turned east following the silk roads into China.
Brumby
Major
I just want to reiterate which is not address in your reply below but is important to repeat (for emphasis) because of the manner in which Buddhism/Chinese culture is viewed in China. I believe the development of Mahayana Buddhism in China over time integrated the Chinese deities like Guanyin into Buddhism that over time it is no longer discernible in its origin as part of Chinese folklore. Mahayana as a branch of Buddhism allows for such integration in its practice unlike Theravada.
I congratulate you for your understanding of Christianity and Judaism even though it is not reflective in essence unless you have a biblical understanding which even Christians might struggle to articulate. In Judaism, it is taught that the Jews are God's chosen people as promised through Abraham. The concept of salvation in the Old Testament is somewhat complex and onerous culminating with the annual animal sacrifices and then the atonement for the nation when a selected priest (only once in his lifetime) enters into the Holy of Holies to atone the sins of the nation but only for one year until the next. There are three distinct areas leading to it, the outer court, the Holy place and the Holy of Holies (where the Ark resides). There is a thick veil that separates the Holy place from the Holy of Holies. When Jesus died on the Cross, the Bible tells us this thick veil was torn apart from top to bottom signalling that the separation from God was broken by Himself and every believer who calls upon the name of Jesus has salvation and can enter personally into the Holy of Holies before God Almighty.
I think it is translation problem because religious concepts are difficult to describe and explain. I don't believe the concept of salvation exist in Buddhism as in Christianity. In Buddhism the central concept is impermanence and continuous becoming. It is the continuous cycle of karma and rebirth until one gets to Nirvana where the cycle is broken. Conceptually I don't think you can get someone else to pray for you to gain enlightenment.
I congratulate you for your understanding of Christianity and Judaism even though it is not reflective in essence unless you have a biblical understanding which even Christians might struggle to articulate. In Judaism, it is taught that the Jews are God's chosen people as promised through Abraham. The concept of salvation in the Old Testament is somewhat complex and onerous culminating with the annual animal sacrifices and then the atonement for the nation when a selected priest (only once in his lifetime) enters into the Holy of Holies to atone the sins of the nation but only for one year until the next. There are three distinct areas leading to it, the outer court, the Holy place and the Holy of Holies (where the Ark resides). There is a thick veil that separates the Holy place from the Holy of Holies. When Jesus died on the Cross, the Bible tells us this thick veil was torn apart from top to bottom signalling that the separation from God was broken by Himself and every believer who calls upon the name of Jesus has salvation and can enter personally into the Holy of Holies before God Almighty.
I think it is translation problem because religious concepts are difficult to describe and explain. I don't believe the concept of salvation exist in Buddhism as in Christianity. In Buddhism the central concept is impermanence and continuous becoming. It is the continuous cycle of karma and rebirth until one gets to Nirvana where the cycle is broken. Conceptually I don't think you can get someone else to pray for you to gain enlightenment.
SamuraiBlue
Captain
You have no idea what karma is.
Karma is mortal desire which is within all. That includes the desire to breath, the desire to eat, the desire to sleep. Buddha's teaching is to relinquish all of these desires to enter Nirvāṇa to end the eternal reincarnation and to be allowed moksha. That is what the original Theravāda buddhism teaches.
Moksha is salvation from eternal suffering we face in our mortal life through eternity with our desires and needs. There is no concept of heaven to Buddhism since once you had shed all mortal requirements when you have reached the point of moksha and allowed into Nirvāṇa you had shed all needs for anything .
In Buddhism it teaches of a coming savior Maitreya, who is said to appear 5 billion 670 million years after the original Buddha had left this realm. It is taught that he will be the savior of all life freeing all and allowed moksha.
These teachings all started in INDIA not CHINA, CHINA only adopted them not created them. Lokakṣema a monk from Gandara in 2nd centruy AD translated the Sanskrit scripts into Chinese.[/URL]
That is why Xuanzang made the quest to Gandara in the tale in the first place. By the way Xuanzang is an actual person that lived in 7th century AD during the Tang dynasty.
Brumby
Major
SamuraiBlue
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solarz
Brigadier
Anyway, back on topic, my point was that in the west, Religion is the moral framework of many people. In contrast, the moral framework of the vast majority of Chinese is based on Confucianism, and religion plays a very minor role, if any.
So when western writers talk about the state of religion in China, they are often taking the point of view that a lack of religious prominence is reflective of a lack of moral values. This could not be further from the truth, as they are completely ignoring the omnipresence of Confucian and traditional values.
So when western writers talk about the state of religion in China, they are often taking the point of view that a lack of religious prominence is reflective of a lack of moral values. This could not be further from the truth, as they are completely ignoring the omnipresence of Confucian and traditional values.
If anything, Confucian and most Chinese traditional values are infused or directly interpret/deals with moral values. I do not understand why moral values needs to be tied to religions or gods command before people can/will follow them.
Even in Western worlds, there are lots of people who have no religious affiliation or class themselves as atheist, but I bet no one will say that because of this they lack moral values.
More like it is the only framework for pretty much anything for quite some time, as in the west one dominant religion tends to win out across any particular region, as a result people simply have very little other forms of religious or pagan values for reference.
In China the separation of religion (or the priest class) and state happened early enough and coupled with early legalism development and abolishment of the heredity-based feudal class (excapt for the close relatives of the emperor) means that all religions must not interfere with the bureaucratic process of the government if they are to survive in China. In this sense ancient China was more tolerant and enlightened in terms of the religion choices that its people have.
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