Chinese Aviation Industry

Blackstone

Brigadier
probably within two years after it receives the Chinese certification at the end of this year. The agreement that FAA would recognize the Chinese certification process is still in effect, so unless the US reneges on the deal. The Chinese certification agency is supposedly even tough than FAA according aviationweek. it is going to happen. But ARJ21 doesn't need FAA certification for now to start full production as there are already hundreds of domestic backorders to be filled.

Since ARJ21 carries more than 19 passengers, and exceeds 19k pounds on takeoff, it's too large to be covered by current FAA bilateral agreement.
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Country Agreements Allows for the Import to the U.S. of:
China


Bilateral Aiworthiness Agreement
Schedule of Implementation Procedures
Revised Export Documentation Requirement For Engines And Propellers

Obtaining Certification Approval from this Country

Fixed-wing aircraft not exceeding 12,500 lbs., commuter category airplanes up to 19 passengers with a maximum certificated take-off weight of 19,000 lbs. or less, and certain Technical Standard Order appliances.

Note: Appendix A is updated to reflect specific TSO’s eligible for import.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
Comac says securing US Federal Aviation Administration's certification of its regional jet is still an objective, but it appears it is no longer a priority.

ANALYSIS: The ARJ21 progress report
By: Mavis Toh
Shanghai
Source:
03:27 8 Oct 2014

Comac appears to be on the verge of finally getting its much delayed ARJ21 regional jet certificated, after having completed all the necessary ground tests and 95% of all flight test modules.

Its four flight test aircraft have so far completed 2,652 flights, accumulating 4,812 flight hours.

The programme’s vice-chief designer Zhao Keliang tells Flightglobal there are about 10 flight test certification modules left to be done. These include tests on the aircraft’s maximum break energy, rejected takeoff and its flight control system.

The ARJ21 also needs to undergo functional and reliability testing, which would require the aircraft to fly for another 150 hours. This means that the test fleet would surpass the 5,000 flight hour mark by the time it is certificated by the Civil Aviation Administration of China.

Zhao admits frankly that Comac’s inexperience in aircraft development, supply chain management and certification has led to the long delay in the programme, which started in 2002.

“The aircraft flies, issues are detected, and then changes have to be made. This is a very time consuming process. This speaks of our inexperience.”

asset image

AirTeamImages

He adds that changes often have to be made to various aircraft systems – from avionics to landing gear - after test data is crunched, and suppliers could take months to make the modifications.

Issues with the aircraft’s emergency landing gear system, for example, took four years to resolve. The airframer also passed the natural icing test only on its fifth attempt, because the necessary weather conditions could not be met in China.

Comac has so far secured commitments for 258 ARJ21 regional jets, mostly from Chinese airlines and leasing companies.

The airframer is aware that the ARJ21 would be dated by the time it enters service, especially when facing pressures from newer types such as the Mitsubishi MRJ regional jet and Embraer’s E2 family of re-winged and re-engined jets. Early discussions on an improved version of the regional jet has thus been started to ensure that the aircraft stays competitive.

Full-swing discussions will commence once CAAC certification is obtained, says Zhao. Comac wants to reduce the aircraft’s structural weight, improve its avionics and power systems, and also enhance the manufacturing of its exterior to produce a smoother surface to reduce drag.

There are, however, no near term plans to re-engine the ARJ21, partially because of an agreement that makes GE Aviation the sole supplier of the type’s engines. The ARJ21 is powered by GE’s CF34-10A engines.

Zhao expects Comac to produce 30 to 40 of the current ARJ21s, before the improved variant is rolled out.

Already, the airframer is building a second assembly line for the ARJ21 at its in-construction final assembly centre near Shanghai’s Pudong International airport. The new facility will have a more efficient straight flow line, unlike the current system at Shanghai Aircraft Manufacturing Co where the aircraft has to be towed to four different stations.

When construction is complete, the two lines will have a combined capacity to produce 50 ARJ21s annually.

Publicly, Comac says securing US Federal Aviation Administration's certification of its regional jet is still an objective, but it appears it is no longer a priority.
 

LesAdieux

Junior Member
CFM to deliver first leap-1 engine to COMAC in Q2, 2015

The first flight-compliance engines will be delivered to Comac in the second quarter of 2015, around the time it expects to clinch certification. First flight of the C919, now closing in on final assembly, is expected late in 2015. The revised schedule now calls for certification of the C919 to be completed around the end of 2017, with entry into service in early 2018.



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broadsword

Brigadier
C919 Inches Toward Flight-Testing, ARJ21 Toward Upgrade

Comac, striving to fly the C919 by the end of 2015, is also planning an ARJ21 upgrade
Nov 3, 2014 Bradley Perrett | Aviation Week & Space Technology

dfV3nyx.jpg

The C919 nose will be fitted with a load-bearing windscreen frame.


With its first C919 flight-test aircraft now in final assembly, Comac plans to roll out the aircraft in less than one year and is trying to prepare it for a first flight in late 2015. Construction of the second flight-test aircraft is following about half a year behind the first.

For the 2014 Air Show China in Zhuhai Nov. 11-16, the C919 will appear again as a mock-up and models; but there is a good chance that one of its prototypes will overfly the 2016 show as China’s first production mainline airliner.

Comac has revised some of the specifications of the aircraft, which provided the launch airframe for the same CFM Leap 1 engine later chosen for the similarly sized Airbus A320neo. An extra row of six seats will be available in the C919’s high-density cabin arrangement, but the designed economic life has been shortened.

Bigger changes are in store for Comac’s earlier aircraft, the much delayed ARJ21 regional jet. The manufacturer now expects the ARJ21 will achieve airworthiness certification this year and adds that it is planning an update of the model.

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Avic’s Xian factories are building C919 center fuselages and wing boxes. Credit: Comac Photo

Comac will not comment on its target for first delivery of the C919, however. In May, it said that would occur in 2018, 10 years after development was launched as a national program to advance the Chinese aeronautics industry.

Final assembly of the aircraft began on Sept. 19. As of mid-October, when Comac supplied photographs to Aviation Week from its new Shanghai factory, the C919 prototype’s forward and the Chengdu-built nose had been lowered into the assembly tool.

Delivery of the C919 fuselage sections from Comac’s structural suppliers, all subsidiaries of Avic, began in May. The last was the mid-aft fuselage, which, like the forward fuselage, was built by Avic’s Hongdu Aviation works at Nanchang. The center fuselage and center wingbox come from Avic’s Xian plant, which is also building the left and right wing.

“Final assembly is proceeding steadily,” says Comac, adding that it is trying to complete joining the structure by year-end, after which it will integrate the on-board systems. The roll-out is due in the third quarter of 2015.

Making a first flight around the end of next year is an ambition but seemingly not a definite expectation; the company says it is “striving” to do that. Considering that the first aircraft may not be rolled out until September, the timing looks tight. Mitsubishi Aircraft, which rolled out its first MRJ regional jet on Oct. 18, is allowing about half a year for ground tests before flying (AW&ST Oct. 27, p. 34).

The latest of several C919 schedule slippages, announced in May, seems to have amounted to only a few months. Just before that change in the plan, the first aircraft was due to be rolled out in June 2015 and fly four months later. When the program was launched in 2008, the first flight was scheduled for this year and first delivery in 2016, allowing eight years for development—which was generous by international standards but realistically so, considering the limited experience of the Chinese managers and engineers.

Comac will use six aircraft for flight testing, one more than originally planned. Parts for several of them are being made, the company says; the second aircraft is due to enter final assembly in the first half of next year.

Well aware that the major modules of early prototypes sometimes do not fit, Comac managers were a little nervous in awaiting delivery of the first C919’s major structural assemblies, program officials say. Asked whether mistakes have appeared in final assembly, Comac does not directly answer but says: “The problems of all fabrication methods have been resolved in the trial production phase” in the manufacturing of sample parts that began in 2009. “All parts being delivered have been passed by the Civil Aviation Administration of China [CAAC] and conform to the design requirements,” the company notes.

“For the manufacturing of C919 structural parts, Comac design and production staff and supplier production staff form technical, manufacturing and production teams. They collectively resolve production problems,” Comac adds.

In the U.S., CFM partners General Electric and Snecma began flight-testing the Leap engine on Oct. 6. The Leap 1A for Airbus and very similar 1C for Comac will be certified next year, says CFM. The C919 benefited from applying Leap 1A improvements to the earlier 1C, but the changes caused some of the delay in the Chinese program, a Comac official says.

A more recent change is an increase in maximum seating to 174 from 168 in an all-economy arrangement. Comac also says the aircraft’s designed economic life has been reduced to 80,000 flight hours from 90,000. Standard two-class seating for the C919 is 158.

The new factory, near Pudong International Airport, is “initially complete,” says Comac, apparently meaning that the plant is ready to begin work but is not fully equipped. By 2020, it will be able to build 150 C919s and 50 ARJ21 regional jets a year, the manufacturer says, declining to discuss its ramp-up plans.

Comac’s plant includes a final assembly hall in which a moving assembly line is “basically” installed. Another factory, though built for upstream work, is handling the final assembly of the first flying prototype, using automatic drilling and riveting equipment, an automatic system for aligning the modules, automatically guided vehicles and an aircraft movement system. “This is an automated assembly line of an advanced international standard,” says the manufacturer.

A composites factory is equipped with China’s largest autoclave, 5.5 meters (18 ft.) long, although Comac has decided not to use composites for large and difficult parts of the aircraft, such as the center wingbox.

Comac says customers have ordered 400 C919s. But the contracts have little binding effect, according to people who have seen some of them. And even if the order book comprised solid contracts, it would still have two shortcomings in the makeup of its customers. One is that they are all Chinese, with the exception of Gecas, which belongs to General Electric, a supplier. The impression, then, is that customers are ordering for national policy.

Then there is the curiously small quantity covered by the central government’s big three airlines—China Southern, Air China and China Eastern—to which the program must be looking as anchor customers. At the 2010 Zhuhai show, those three each ordered just five C919s, while Hainan Airlines, the private, fourth-ranked Chinese carrier, ordered 20.

Comac’s program was based on sales of 2,500 C919s. Even if only 1,000 are built, the big-three carriers will surely have to buy about 200 each. That assumes that the great bulk of C919 sales will be made in China—an increasingly realistic assumption, because the type has no clear path to endorsement of its airworthiness by the FAA or European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA), as originally intended.

But the C919 is being developed to international airworthiness standards, says Comac. At first it seemed obvious that the FAA could endorse the type certificate from the CAAC, since the U.S. authority was in the process of monitoring the ARJ21 program to assess its Chinese counterpart’s airworthiness competence. Unfortunately, it still is. The ARJ21 is running eight years late, so the CAAC’s work on the C919 has not been recognized by the FAA. EASA has never been involved.

So where does that leave the C919? “Getting an FAA or EASA certificate is still under discussion,” says Comac. This is not just important for international sales of the C919; Chinese customers also want a Western stamp on the type certificate.

Flight-testing will be conducted mainly from a new base at Dongying Shengli Airport in Shandong. Flight-test pilots and engineers also will be trained at the base, which Comac says will have “a delivery, maintenance and modification capability.” It will handle some ARJ21 flight-testing, as well.

Meanwhile, the ARJ21 is entering volume production. Comac said last month it had signed an order for 10 sets of airframe major assemblies with the Xian branch of Avic Aircraft. Xian builds the wing and fuselage sections for the aircraft.

Comac must now be fairly sure of the latest target, since it would not want to contract for volume production until it knew that the aircraft could be delivered according to the current design.

Under the shadow certification process, the FAA is expected to endorse the ARJ21’s CAAC type certificate, giving the ARJ21 regulatory acceptability in the markets of economically advanced countries. But after so many years of development, during which its technology has aged significantly, the type is unlikely to be a hot seller internationally. For example, its engine is the GE CF34-10, which Embraer is replacing on its next series of E Jets.

For an upgrade of the ARJ21, “we have already begun demonstration work and will fully go ahead after the type certificate has been issued,” Comac says. “This will mainly involve reductions in weight and drag. There will also be improvements in the avionics, flight controls and anti-icing system.”

The aircraft covered by the Avic Aircraft Xian contract will have serial numbers 120-129. Avic Aircraft is the large-airplane subsidiary of state aeronautics group Avic.

From this year, the factory is making many “technical quality improvements” in automatic riveting of fuselage panels, wingbox assembly, fuselage jigs and in detail assembly, says the branch company’s deputy general manager, Xu Chunlin. These and other measures, such as training, have greatly raised production stability and “have made an obvious improvement to product quality and production rate,” Xu is quoted as saying in Avic’s newspaper China Aviation News.

Earlier in the program, Comac was not satisfied with the quality of airframe modules supplied from Xian for flight-test aircraft. Around 2010, a problem was a bad fit between the center and outer wingboxes, says an industry official working on the program.

Comac endorses Xu’s statement that ARJ21 production quality has improved.

The Xian factory has everything ready for the increased rate, says Xu. The delivery dates for the 10 aircraft were not stated, but in the middle of this year Comac was planning to complete two ARJ21s in 2014, five in 2015, eight in 2016, 15 in 2017 and 20 in 2018. “The risk will be in going from eight to 15, especially since the C919 production preparations will be happening at the same time,” says the industry official.

Comac has been contractually obliged to compensate suppliers for the lateness of the program.

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asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
If they started to upgrade The ARJ-21 engine they will have to rework a lot of the work they have done which might add to the delay

ARJ-21 didn't get off to the flying start they had hoped and now with outdated systems for well developed nations who have access to latest technology's from Embraer, Boeing, Airbus and Bombardier it could be left out of the market

If they add a upgrade this means further delay it's a kind of a loose loose situation for ARJ-21 when it comes to Western exports

Now for C919 the crucial step is getting the foreign certification before 2018 if they can do that they are in business of that turns out like ARJ-21 then again the hopes of foreign exports might dry out again

Although Chinese markets will get lots of order for ARJ-21 and C919 the foreign markets especially the Western ones might be reluctant

Success or failure? Too early to say
 

weig2000

Captain
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Boeing Chief Conscious of Chinese Competition
U.S. Plane Maker to Consider Launch of New Single-Aisle Jetliner by 2030

By Rory Jones
Nov. 5, 2014 6:20 a.m. ET

ABU DHABI— Boeing Co. Chief Executive Jim McNerney said Wednesday that the world’s largest plane maker wanted to launch a new single-aisle jetliner by the end of the next decade, not to compete with arch rival Airbus Group NV, but to head off emerging competition from China.

State-owned Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China Ltd., or Comac, next year is expected to test its first single-aisle aircraft, the C919, and deliver the jet in 2018. Mr. McNerney expects Comac to develop the jet and become a serious competitor in the next decade, requiring Boeing to respond.

He said the U.S. plane maker, which is already in the process of revamping its single-aisle 737 jet, would consider building a new aircraft made from carbon fiber composite materials that could be delivered before 2030.

“We will eventually compete by offering something at the same price that does a lot more,” Mr. McNerney said.

The new plane would replace the 737 Max, an upgraded version of the jet currently in production, which features new engines and is due for delivery from 2017.

Boeing executives have previously indicated they anticipate an all-new design emerging around 2030.

Airbus, the world’s No. 2 jetliner maker, has similar plans and is working on its own single-aisle jet upgrade to satisfy demand from airlines for more fuel-efficient planes. The European A320neo, set to enter service next year, is the direct competitor to Boeing’s 737 Max.

Mr. McNerney said a completely new single-aisle jet would incorporate much of the innovation developed for its lightweight and more fuel-efficient 787 Dreamliner widebody jet, as well as its planned 777X family of aircraft due to enter service in 2020.

Industry officials are skeptical about when Comac’s C919 will actually come to market. The project has suffered several delays.

Still, Mr. McNerney said Boeing would want to launch a new plane by the end of the next decade because China will eventually have a viable competitor.

“We have to do that airplane because at that point the entrant will be doing something like the Max,” Mr. McNerney told a conference on innovation in Abu Dhabi. “Keeping up purely on price will be difficult.”

Airbus and Boeing have demonstrated a willingness to launch new planes to preserve their duopoly. Airbus launched the A320neo program after Bombardier Inc. started developing its CSeries narrowbody jet. Boeing then responded with the Boeing 737 Max. Bombardier has struggled to win CSeries orders since.

Orders for single-aisle aircraft have spurred a glut of total jet orders for both Boeing and Airbus in recent years as U.S. and European airlines replace aging fleets and Asian, Latin American and Middle Eastern carriers expand.

Both plane markers predict the single-aisle market to continue to grow, just as Comac begins delivery and ramps up sales of its aircraft. U.S. and European industry officials agree that China will eventually be a force in the single-aisle market, though it may take time to establish itself.

Boeing projects global demand for 25,680 single-aisle aircraft over the next 20 years, while Airbus estimates that buyers will require about 22,000 such planes.

Write to Rory Jones at [email protected]
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Chinese private aircraft maker. I wish there was a better angle to see this plane fully.

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It's interesting how there are different design philosophies in China. Exports and companies not backed by the government seemed to be more in tune with modern and/or new design. Copying is more in tune with the government mentality. Outsiders think it's just because Chinese can't be original. No it's really the notorious Asian inferiority complex at work where they see anyone else doing better as the mark of success. So in the Chinese public's mind anything that looks like success is success. The government doing something new is not seen as successful. Which is why they follow the path of what has been successful as their success when they do it. The communists have to justify their authority over the people and won't do anything new because that's too risky. So they follow the model of proven success. As China becomes more affluent, we'll probably see more and more innovation and new designs.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
I think you are reading a bit much into it.

Also, There are innovative designs by state affiliated institutes and there are also unoriginal designs by private firms too.
As I posted over in the J-15 thread, copying of airframes is needed because the government (I.e.: military) needs new capabilities on a limited budget and using proven airframes is faster, cheaper, and more sensible.

When they want a new capability but have no proven airframe to build off they are forced to use clean sheet designs.
Pragmatism is the name of the game.
 
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