Chinese Aviation Industry

The problem of French air traffic control speaking French to everyone except for the few foreigners who were spoken to in English and who consequently didn't know what everyone else knew caused problems as late as fifteen or twenty years ago.
I don't really know that the problem has been solved yet. I suppose it is.

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When there is a foreign captain at a Chinese airline, wouldn't the co-pilot most likely be Chinese? The co-pilot can help interpret Chinese. Although this further burdens the co-pilot when they are already busy during landing and take-off.

This whole project is more about not losing money than making money, since China spends hundreds of billions on passenger acquisition each year.

A joint venture between Russian Helicopters and Avic’s helicopter division is mentioned in this article:

"The joint venture, Sino-Russian Helicopter Services, will initially provide technical support to all Russian helicopter models operating in China. It will subsequently develop repair and overhaul, and final assembly capabilities."

A Yun-10 Video

[video]http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTQ4NTc0MzI=.html[/video]

ICBC Leasing, the aircraft leasing arm of China's ICBC bank, orders 45 C919 today bringing the order book to 145.



ICBC Leasing orders 45 C919 passenger jets
Updated: 2011-10-19 17:44:00
(Xinhua)

SHANGHAI, October 19 (Xinhua) -- ICBC Leasing on Wednesday signed a deal with Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China, Ltd. (COMAC) to buy 45 of the nation's homegrown C919 large passenger planes.

The financial leasing arm of Industrial and Commercial Bank of China, the country's largest lender, signed the new order as it sought to expand its fleet size to cash in on the country's rapidly growing demand for air services.

Neither side revealed the order's value.

ICBC Leasing currently has 70 passenger planes. In June, it ordered an additional 42 A320s from Airbus.

The deal is also a boost for COMAC as the newcomer looks to compete with dominant passenger plane makers Airbus and Boeing to win a slice of the international aviation market share.

At the Zhuhai Airshow last year, COMAC received its first orders for a total of 100 C919s from Air China, China Southern Airlines, China Eastern Airlines, Hainan Airlines, CDB Leasing and GE Capital Aviation Services.

COMAC has said it will develop both 168-seat and 156-seat models of the jet, with more models to be developed in the future.

It has also said that test flights for the single-aisle C919 are scheduled for 2014, and delivery is slated for 2016.

BA's boss talking about C919. Are BA & Ryanair serious about C919 or just using it to squeeze more goodies out of Airbus & Boeing ?



BA’s Walsh Says China Jet a Threat to Airbus, Boeing After Visit
October 18, 2011, 12:19 PM EDT
By Andrea Rothman

Oct. 18 (Bloomberg) -- Willie Walsh, chief executive of British Airways parent IAG, said he examined China’s plans for a new single-aisle plane during a recent visit there and that the project represents a serious rival to Airbus SAS and Boeing Co.

The executive met with Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China in Shanghai about six weeks ago and was shown blueprints for the 168-seat C919 jet it aims to make by 2016, he said today in an address to engineers in Toulouse, France, where Airbus is based.

“My view is you have a real competitor,” Walsh said. “The C919 looks very good on paper. There’s a lot of improvement in fuel consumption and environmental performance.” He didn’t say whether his company is considering placing an order.

British Airways, which merged with Spain’s Iberia in January to form International Consolidated Airlines Group SA, signed a memorandum with Comac at the 2010 Farnborough Air Show agreeing to initiate talks about “future aircraft needs.” IAG is a major customer for both Airbus and Boeing so that any switch to the Chinese company would be viewed as a breakthrough order.

Ryanair Holdings Plc, Europe’s biggest discount airline, said at the Paris Air Show in June that it’s also talking with Comac and has a requirement for at least 200 single-aisle jets.............................................

I wonder how many of them are not orders but "options." COMAC claims to have sold 120 C919 jets so far, this would bring it up to 165.

But at least 45 of those aircraft aren't firm "orders," they are options.

Centrist said:

I wonder how many of them are not orders but "options." COMAC claims to have sold 120 C919 jets so far, this would bring it up to 165.

But at least 45 of those aircraft aren't firm "orders," they are options.

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And the bulk of the order book is from companies connected to COMAC (either owned directly or partially).

Pointblank said:

And the bulk of the order book is from companies connected to COMAC (either owned directly or partially).

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Doesn't matter, Boeing started out, even up to this day, with massive support from the US government as well, in the forms of subsidies, state military orders and pressures on airlines to buy their products.
China has a massive market, that's why Comac's chances of success is high, as BA's boss seem to think as well.

Schumacher said:

Doesn't matter, Boeing started out, even up to this day, with massive support from the US government as well, in the forms of subsidies, state military orders and pressures on airlines to buy their products.
China has a massive market, that's why Comac's chances of success is high, as BA's boss seem to think as well.

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Then why haven't the big Chinese airlines (Air China, China Southern, China Eastern, Hainan, etc) only place very small firm orders with Comac, and have decided to instead buy hundreds of Airbus, Boeing, and Bombardier aircraft over the local product, and continue to do so, despite government arm twisting to buy the local product?

When 60% of your order book is for options, not firm purchases, it doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence. And even the firm orders are highly suspect; most apparently aren't even binding orders...

And that's for an aircraft that independent observers have noted appears to be overweight, with figures being presented as being highly suspect...

I will point out BA will never buy the Comac aircraft. He's using the Comac C919 as a bargaining tool for his negotiations with Airbus and Boeing for new aircraft. No one in the industry is taking Comac very seriously.

With both Boeing and Airbus having refreshed versions of the 737 and A320 out before the C919, the C919 will get squeezed out of the market. With the major delays in certification on the ARJ-21, they will have pull resources from development on the C919 to fix the major technical design flaws (a wing that failed structural load tests and thus require redesign and retesting, and issues with the flight control system) in the ARJ-21 and the ARJ-21 still not having passed two critical certification tests (icing and stall tests), and still have yet to sign off the aircraft to the CAAC for their own certification tests, meaning most likely a heavily delayed EIS.

It is more likely that the Irkut MS-21 will be far more successful than the C919, and the current order book reflect that; the MS-21 has 200 FIRM orders, not options.