The big difference between COMAC and any others is that C919 is the first for COMAC. There is no historical reliable reference to make a time plan in the first place. That is not to blame COMAC nor excuse it from delay, but simply to say that its time plan is not something anyone should be more serious (in the sense of its reliability) about compared to Boeing, Airbus or Bombardier's time plan.
Chinese Aviation Industry
- Thread starter FriedRiceNSpice
- Start date
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
There is video in this link. Sofar so good with 90% load factor and satisfy passenger and operator
The second ARJ21 aircraft delivered to customer
CCTV.com
09-30-2016 04:11 BJT
The Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China -- a government-owned designer and constructor of large passenger aircraft -- has delivered its second jet to Chengdu Airlines in Shanghai. It's a huge step for COMAC, who is trying to ease China's dependency on international aircraft producers, and enter a stage of mass industrialization .
Delivery completed. This 78-seater aircraft -- equipped with an economy and a business class -- is COMAC's second ARJ21-700. It's expected to begin its routes soon -- the same ones as its sister jet -- which made its maiden commercial flight in late June. It has completed 70 flights, with load factors of above 90 percent. The ARJ21 is the first type of jet to be designed and constructed in China.
"The implementation of the ARJ21 has been very smooth. Both experts and passengers spoke highly of the aircraft, from the flight conditions to the service," Chengdu Airlines President Zhuang Haogang said.
There are now more than 400 orders for the ARJ21 jet. COMAC will now begin to ramp up their production and they expect, by 2020, their annual output will be at 25.
"The ARJ21 is able to operate successfully, and I believe that it will operate better and better with further improvements..." Shen Xiaoming with China Civil Aviation Administration said.
The success of the ARJ21 has been a great boost for the industry here, from research and development and marketing, to mass production and customer services.
It shows that China can not only progress its own research and design to produce regional jets, but today's students now have a great base to go even further in the industry.
The second ARJ21 aircraft delivered to customer
CCTV.com
09-30-2016 04:11 BJT
The Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China -- a government-owned designer and constructor of large passenger aircraft -- has delivered its second jet to Chengdu Airlines in Shanghai. It's a huge step for COMAC, who is trying to ease China's dependency on international aircraft producers, and enter a stage of mass industrialization .
Delivery completed. This 78-seater aircraft -- equipped with an economy and a business class -- is COMAC's second ARJ21-700. It's expected to begin its routes soon -- the same ones as its sister jet -- which made its maiden commercial flight in late June. It has completed 70 flights, with load factors of above 90 percent. The ARJ21 is the first type of jet to be designed and constructed in China.
"The implementation of the ARJ21 has been very smooth. Both experts and passengers spoke highly of the aircraft, from the flight conditions to the service," Chengdu Airlines President Zhuang Haogang said.
There are now more than 400 orders for the ARJ21 jet. COMAC will now begin to ramp up their production and they expect, by 2020, their annual output will be at 25.
"The ARJ21 is able to operate successfully, and I believe that it will operate better and better with further improvements..." Shen Xiaoming with China Civil Aviation Administration said.
The success of the ARJ21 has been a great boost for the industry here, from research and development and marketing, to mass production and customer services.
It shows that China can not only progress its own research and design to produce regional jets, but today's students now have a great base to go even further in the industry.
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China’s surging domestic travel stokes boom for carriers
Surge in airline startups as Chinese regulator cuts red tape means a boom in new aircraft orders and happy days for pilots
By Reuters November 1, 2016 8:59 AM (UTC+8)
China’s appetite for planes and pilots is building up, whetted by a slew of airlines launched in the past three years as local governments, private firms and larger carriers fight for a share of the country’s fast-growing domestic travel market.
More than 10 Chinese carriers have begun flying since Beijing’s aviation regulator relaxed a six-year suspension on new airline licenses in 2013. They now operate or have ordered at least 100 jets made by Europe’s Airbus, US giant Boeing and Embraer of Brazil.
Such breakneck expansion might give cause for alarm in mature aviation markets. But China’s new breed of carrier is focusing on second- and third-tier Chinese cities that have gleaming, newly built airports that helped stoke an 8.2 percent rise in domestic passenger traffic in 2015, according to the International Air Transport Association.
While state carriers like Air China, China Eastern Airlines and China Southern Airlines dominate for now, the newcomers have deep-pocketed backers like conglomerate HNA Group, plus support from local authorities as well as Air China itself.
“By 2020 we want to have 40-50 planes,” said Lan Yu, brand manager at Guangxi Beibu Gulf Airlines, a newcomer set up by the government of southwestern Guangxi province and Tianjin Airlines in 2015. Tianjin Airlines is a unit of HNA, an aviation and shipping giant with more than $100 billion in assets.
Guangxi Beibu will fly 13 Embraer E190 regional jets and three Airbus A320s to 28 Chinese cities by the end of 2016, Lan said. With average seat occupancy of more than 90% since flights began, Lan said the carrier was already profitable.
Aircraft makers like Boeing welcome the newcomers, provided they are financially sound.
“We obviously look a little more closely at new airlines to make sure we account for the risk, but we’re not seeing any issues with the ones that have started up in China,” said Darren Hulst, head of marketing in northeast Asia for Boeing’s commercial aircraft division.
As well as the newcomers already up and running, at least 10 more airlines have applied for air operator certificates, according to company statements and local media reports. At the end of last year, China had 48 passenger airlines, up from 36 at the end of 2012, according to data from the Civil Aviation Administration of China.
Along with racking up aircraft orders, the new airlines are also advertising pay packages up to 50 percent higher than their established rivals as they find it tougher to lure staff, said Sherrie Luo, general manager of Hong Kong-based crew recruitment firm Smile Aviation.
Hongtu Airlines, based in the southwestern city of Kunming, is offering Airbus A320 pilots monthly salaries of up to US$25,500, according to advertisements on Smile Aviation’s website. Pilots heading to China Eastern can expect as much as US$18,500 a month.
Surge in airline startups as Chinese regulator cuts red tape means a boom in new aircraft orders and happy days for pilots
By Reuters November 1, 2016 8:59 AM (UTC+8)
China’s appetite for planes and pilots is building up, whetted by a slew of airlines launched in the past three years as local governments, private firms and larger carriers fight for a share of the country’s fast-growing domestic travel market.
More than 10 Chinese carriers have begun flying since Beijing’s aviation regulator relaxed a six-year suspension on new airline licenses in 2013. They now operate or have ordered at least 100 jets made by Europe’s Airbus, US giant Boeing and Embraer of Brazil.
Such breakneck expansion might give cause for alarm in mature aviation markets. But China’s new breed of carrier is focusing on second- and third-tier Chinese cities that have gleaming, newly built airports that helped stoke an 8.2 percent rise in domestic passenger traffic in 2015, according to the International Air Transport Association.
While state carriers like Air China, China Eastern Airlines and China Southern Airlines dominate for now, the newcomers have deep-pocketed backers like conglomerate HNA Group, plus support from local authorities as well as Air China itself.
“By 2020 we want to have 40-50 planes,” said Lan Yu, brand manager at Guangxi Beibu Gulf Airlines, a newcomer set up by the government of southwestern Guangxi province and Tianjin Airlines in 2015. Tianjin Airlines is a unit of HNA, an aviation and shipping giant with more than $100 billion in assets.
Guangxi Beibu will fly 13 Embraer E190 regional jets and three Airbus A320s to 28 Chinese cities by the end of 2016, Lan said. With average seat occupancy of more than 90% since flights began, Lan said the carrier was already profitable.
Aircraft makers like Boeing welcome the newcomers, provided they are financially sound.
“We obviously look a little more closely at new airlines to make sure we account for the risk, but we’re not seeing any issues with the ones that have started up in China,” said Darren Hulst, head of marketing in northeast Asia for Boeing’s commercial aircraft division.
As well as the newcomers already up and running, at least 10 more airlines have applied for air operator certificates, according to company statements and local media reports. At the end of last year, China had 48 passenger airlines, up from 36 at the end of 2012, according to data from the Civil Aviation Administration of China.
Along with racking up aircraft orders, the new airlines are also advertising pay packages up to 50 percent higher than their established rivals as they find it tougher to lure staff, said Sherrie Luo, general manager of Hong Kong-based crew recruitment firm Smile Aviation.
Hongtu Airlines, based in the southwestern city of Kunming, is offering Airbus A320 pilots monthly salaries of up to US$25,500, according to advertisements on Smile Aviation’s website. Pilots heading to China Eastern can expect as much as US$18,500 a month.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
This should be good news for ARJ 21 Since they are tailor made for Chinese cities and has bigger power plant to allow it flying into higher altitude cities
Blackstone
Brigadier
If the ARJ-21 ever becomes successful, it would be great for both domestic and foreign suppliers.
Manufacturers
Members of the ACAC consortium, which was formed to develop the aircraft, will manufacture major components of the aircraft:
- : construction of the nose
- : construction of the wings and fuselage; wing designed by Antonov State Company in the Ukraine.
- : construction of the
- : final assembly
- : CF-34 turbofan
- : Avionics
- Various domestic and international suppliers of component's suppliers.
problem is ARJ-21 is just not an advanced design by any imagination. On top of that, it uses the same generation of engine as E-Jet series despite coming over a decade later. Compared to that, Russia's SSJ-100 use SAM-146 engine which is half a generation newer in efficiency and a full generation ahead in terms of maintenance. And MRJ, which uses an engine that's a full generation newer. It wouldn't have been a problem had it actually gone into service on time, but it didn't.
As i said before, all the airliners are getting larger. The 30 to 50 seats jets are getting completely removed from service. Bombardier and Embraer are no longer investing into the 70 to 90 seat market. Airliners are now looking at 90+ seat class of airliners to replace all of that. It looks like COMAC is effectively doing that when you consider how slowly ARJ-21 has been moving forward. All the resources are going to C919.
As i said before, all the airliners are getting larger. The 30 to 50 seats jets are getting completely removed from service. Bombardier and Embraer are no longer investing into the 70 to 90 seat market. Airliners are now looking at 90+ seat class of airliners to replace all of that. It looks like COMAC is effectively doing that when you consider how slowly ARJ-21 has been moving forward. All the resources are going to C919.
Blackstone
Brigadier
So, is the ARJ-21 a white elephant?
White elephant implies the project had zero reason to proceed. The ARJ21 project had plenty of reasons to proceed, the most important of which was being a learning experience. It is the dreaded, but unavoidable, first step. First steps are sometimes successful, sometimes unsuccessful, but they need to be made nonetheless for every endeavour. The ARJ21, for a first step, isn't performing too badly. It's not a market failure but neither is it a success, it's quite simply, completely mediocre.