Chinese 96-A

S

Scratch

Captain
Since you're having a speed debate here, I'm just curious, are there acceleration figures for different tanks around? I'm thinking, especially for light tanks probably, acceleration would be a rather usefull capability. Making a dash from one fighting position to another.
There's torque figures for some tanks around, so i thought looking at tourqe / t might be an indication, but not sure about this really.
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Lezt said:
Wolf, again, I don't disagree with you.

But we cannot simply divide 600 km by 2 X 10hr/day to get the speed the tanks were travelling at.

an armored division would have ~300 tanks? maintenance platoon of 600+ men + engineering vehicles, +8000 men in 200 APC/IFV and ~1000 trucks, organic artillery.

Thats a column length of 30 km just counting the vehicles at 20 m spacing,

Now, each one runs out of fuel in around 4-6 hours, Refueling process will take, 4-6 hours just to refuel the column and several hours for the trucks to actually get there driving up and down the column to reach each vehicle. +rest stop, +meal break, +terrain choke points,

The armoured column may only really be moving on the road 5-6 hours a day; probably a sustained road speed of 45-60 km/hr

The gulf war had shown that some Abrams that were advancing 100s of km a day in Iraq simply sat there for days waiting for fuel to catch up.
Click to expand...

Come on, that smacks of manipulating the figures to suit your needs.

I was already being extremely generous knocking travel time to 10h a day. That subtracted 14h per day is for rest breaks, refueling, sleep and all the rest, and is beyond reasonable.

To only spend 5-6 hours per day traveling, during a maneuvering exercise, would be scandalously incompetent. That would be pretty poor even for your average family holiday road trip, and those are supposed to be soldiers on a mission, not civilians out for a leisurely drive.

Again, your Iraqi example doesn't prove much. Going at 30kh/m nets you 300km per day if you are driving 10hs. Hardly unreasonable figures, especially for the ideal tank terrain they were operating in.

You are not going to find any examples of tanks travelling hundreds of KMs at top speed because that just isn't done. The tank engines are not designed to be pushed that hard for that long, and if you tried it, things will break.

Hell, those top speeds are usually not even attainable unless under ideal conditions. Things like your tank with minimal load bombing down a very straight stretch of highway or perfect plains/desert conditions. Even then its not really advisable outside of a test facility as everyday things like large pot holes or large buried rocks could potentially throw a track if your tank is moving that fast when it hits it.
 
L

Lezt

Junior Member
plawolf said:
Come on, that smacks of manipulating the figures to suit your needs.

I was already being extremely generous knocking travel time to 10h a day. That subtracted 14h per day is for rest breaks, refueling, sleep and all the rest, and is beyond reasonable.

To only spend 5-6 hours per day traveling, during a maneuvering exercise, would be scandalously incompetent. That would be pretty poor even for your average family holiday road trip, and those are supposed to be soldiers on a mission, not civilians out for a leisurely drive.

Again, your Iraqi example doesn't prove much. Going at 30kh/m nets you 300km per day if you are driving 10hs. Hardly unreasonable figures, especially for the ideal tank terrain they were operating in.

You are not going to find any examples of tanks travelling hundreds of KMs at top speed because that just isn't done. The tank engines are not designed to be pushed that hard for that long, and if you tried it, things will break.

Hell, those top speeds are usually not even attainable unless under ideal conditions. Things like your tank with minimal load bombing down a very straight stretch of highway or perfect plains/desert conditions. Even then its not really advisable outside of a test facility as everyday things like large pot holes or large buried rocks could potentially throw a track if your tank is moving that fast when it hits it.
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Comeon, read what I wrote,

I never said that tanks should run at full speed, quote me if you can find me saying so.

The example I worked out here didn't show the tank going at full speed, the Soviet excecise was at around 45-50 km/hr, for tanks which have a top speed of 60 km/hr;

If you read the combat diary of the iraq tank movements, the Abrams did travel at higher speed than average speed when they were moving. My point being that you draw a line on a map, calculate an average speed, thats not the speed which the tank was travelling at when it was in motion.

You think that 5-6 hours of actual movement a day is rubbish? well, Panzer Lehr took 3 months by rail to move from France to Russia 3000 km... I bet you the train didn't go at 2.8 km/hr if you assume that it runs 12 hours a day. Logistics for one family caravan with service stations along the way is one thing, to bring the fuel, field kitchen, medical supplies for a division is another.

My point being, top speed have an impact even thou it is not that important and we simply shouldn't discount it.
 
AZaz09dude

AZaz09dude

Junior Member
Registered Member
After I heard about the the Tank Biathlon, I went on YouTube to search for some videos of it. This comment on a video comparing the ZTZ-96's FCS to the T-72's FCS made a lot of sense to me:
The match ended.
Russian jumping and yelling "I Won!!" They have totally forgot they cheated with the specially modified T72-B3M,and totally forgot they just rammed the Chinese tank in the very first day.

Then the Indian, jumped out, waving his hands in the sky, screaming "omg our media said we won the 3rd! China is only at 8th! We beat China!" Drowned in the sea of illusion, with happiness and ignorance, waiting for his final peace.

And the Yankees, joined in, yelling "u guys are all **** I'm da BEST!! ALWAYS!!" Then jumped back in his little black ****** house, muttering "ALL AMERICAN, ALL AMERICAN" meanwhile, many new cracks added to supporting wall.

Then the Chinese，just turn around and walk away, saying to himself: we need to make a better engine!

What a crazy world we are living in~ heh
Click to expand...
(I'm sorta new and I don't really post a lot, but to me this seems to follow the forum rules and is relatively on topic)
 
Blackstone

Blackstone

Brigadier
AZaz09dude said:
After I heard about the the Tank Biathlon, I went on YouTube to search for some videos of it. This comment on a video comparing the ZTZ-96's FCS to the T-72's FCS made a lot of sense to me:
Click to expand...

The attached Youtube clip shows unquestionable superiority of 96As to T-72B3Ms, and how little chance the latter has against the former in actual combat. A regiment of 96As would make mincemeat of a regiment of T-72 (any model), assuming both sides have roughly same levels of crew training and experience.

[video=youtube;YQxuYCQn2EQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQxuYCQn2EQ[/video]
 
O

ohan_qwe

Junior Member
Sorry for noob question but does the type 96A and type 99 use the same gun or is it like Rheinmetall 120mm L44/L55?
 
I

Insignius

Junior Member
96/A uses a gun derived from the 2A46M, while the 99 uses the ZPT-98 gun, that is both longer and has more chamber pressure.
 
C

cyan1320

Junior Member
Blackstone said:
The attached Youtube clip shows unquestionable superiority of 96As to T-72B3Ms, and how little chance the latter has against the former in actual combat. A regiment of 96As would make mincemeat of a regiment of T-72 (any model), assuming both sides have roughly same levels of crew training and experience.

[video=youtube;YQxuYCQn2EQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQxuYCQn2EQ[/video]
Click to expand...


pretty amazing fire control computer
How did the 96A not win? :confused:
 
N

no_name

Colonel
Someone joked that for this contest, if you run fast enough, you can miss all the targets and still come first. But I don't think that is how you become a winner in real life.
 
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