China's strategy in Korean peninsula

jobjed

Captain
I stated my opinion. If you think im talking nonsense, the burden of proof is yours. Id love to see some facts or hear some confucian logic to justify your opinion, beyond "prove it".

Use the reply function.

You presented your statement as a statement of fact, not an opinion. Now that you've made it clear it's an opinion and not a fact backed up by evidence, I'm feel safe inserting my opinion that you're not particularly bright and don't have the first clue how the world works. Oh and, according to you, I don't need to show evidence for that claim either 'cause it's an "opinion."

Also, burdens of proof don't work like that lmao. The person making the claim is required to show proof for his/her claim but that's obviously beyond your understanding.
 

Yodello

Junior Member
Registered Member
Your response was a knee-jerk reaction that did not mention the Korea Peninsula at all. All of my comments have been Korea centric.

China, despite assurances given that they are "doing everything they can to control NK" is not. Everything that comes out of Xi's mouth about NK is double talk.

China doesn't owe one bit of allegiance to the US. China isn't obligated to do the United States bidding. China does what is best for China. China likes to trade with all nations and keep the peace with all nations, unless provoked. The US loves to tell others what to do and what not to do, while doing everything as it wishes at its own whims and fancy. Most countries have had enough of US behaviour, and rather than China getting it from all sides when the gauntlet is thrown, as you mentioned, many will be willing to 'stick it' to the US.
Maybe if the US wasn't so hell-bent on containing China and provoking North Korea with its sabre-rattling and maintaining a huge army and weaponry on the Korean peninsula, China would be more amenable to a permanent solution to the Korean unification issue.
The world needs a strong China to maintain a healthy balance of power.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Your response was a knee-jerk reaction that did not mention the Korea Peninsula at all. All of my comments have been Korea centric.

China, despite assurances given that they are "doing everything they can to control NK" is not. Everything that comes out of Xi's mouth about NK is double talk.
It's a spot-on reaction to your off-topic nonsense. You have Korea-centric confused with fantasy-centric.
I stated my opinion. If you think im talking nonsense, the burden of proof is yours. Id love to see some facts or hear some confucian logic to justify your opinion, beyond "prove it".
You don't know how burden of proof works. How surprising. For road, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim, not the person who needs to see evidence for the claim. And if it's an opinion... with no evidence or burden of proof, LOL well then, that's called
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manqiangrexue

Brigadier
China, despite assurances given that they are "doing everything they can to control NK" is not. Everything that comes out of Xi's mouth about NK is double talk.
Double-talk? You just figured that out? Everything in global politics is double talk! When the US says it hopes for a prosperous future for a united Korea, that's double talk. The US wouldn't care if every Korean across the 38th parallel tore his counterpart to shreds if that would buy the US one extra day at containing China. When the US says it accepts the One China Policy, that's double-talk! The US wishes and would actively support, if possible, every Chinese territory rebelling and breaking into a new smaller nation with no power or influence. It wishes to perpetually use ROC as a pawn against China. When the US says it's neutral on the South China Sea, it's double-talk. It hopes every small country takes a piece and leaves China with nothing. And when the US says it hopes for China a peaceful and prosperous rise, that's laughable double-talk! The US wants China's economy to collapse, it's people to tear apart its government, and for every peace of military equipment to be scrapped so the US can uncork every bottle of champagne in America at once! That's your double talk.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Guys, just report obvious flamebaiting and move on. Do not feed the trolls or that will just make them stronger and attract more trolls.

Anyone who spouts such sweeping offensive and laughably untrue generalisations and Trumpian style incendiary bombastic rhetoric is either flamebaiting, or truly ‘just hatched’, like their forum account.

In either case, there is little prospect of having an honest, informed or meaningful conversation, so why bother wasting the time and lowering the standard of the forum by taking the bait?
 

Flying_Fortress

New Member
Registered Member
So pla wolf, what you would prefer is for this forum to be an echo chamber with no dissenting opinion ? No Reality checks from the 中国梦 ?

I am sorry if my opinions offend you, and sorry to break it to you, but there is a big bad world outside of the great firewall where people tend to have conflicting opinions from time to time.

China doesn't owe one bit of allegiance to the US. China isn't obligated to do the United States bidding. China does what is best for China. China likes to trade with all nations and keep the peace with all nations, unless provoked. The US loves to tell others what to do and what not to do, while doing everything as it wishes at its own whims and fancy. Most countries have had enough of US behaviour, and rather than China getting it from all sides when the gauntlet is thrown, as you mentioned, many will be willing to 'stick it' to the US.
Maybe if the US wasn't so hell-bent on containing China and provoking North Korea with its sabre-rattling and maintaining a huge army and weaponry on the Korean peninsula, China would be more amenable to a permanent solution to the Korean unification issue.
The world needs a strong China to maintain a healthy balance of power.

I'd say I agree with most of what you say, China does not owe the U.S. squat, the U.S. is in fact a bully, constantly taunting poor NK, and a strong China is indeed good for the world.

What China does owe is allegence to the U.N. , Which it is a part of & has delusions of hosting the U.N. permanently in China one day as opposed to NYC.

And by supporting a rogue nation for years that the U.N. has repeatedly censured, China has showed that they are not a peaceful nation, and they support regional chaos just as much as America.

China continues to allow rocket boy to provoke at minimum 3 other Member Countries of the U.N. & refuses to support the Unionification of the Korean Peninsula.

So it is a no brainer that the U.S. must maintain said large presence & rattle it's sabre in the region to protect SK & JP from NK & CHINA.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
So pla wolf, what you would prefer is for this forum to be an echo chamber with no dissenting opinion ? No Reality checks from the 中国梦 ?
I am sorry if my opinions offend you, and sorry to break it to you, but there is a big bad world outside of the great firewall where people tend to have conflicting opinions from time to time.
What wolf was saying is that you don't seem versed on basic international norms and you say things that are silly and nonsensical, like the double-talk bit or this UN allegiance thing. It's like you're just figuring out or haven't figured out what was known as an assumption. Then you say ridiculous things like China meeting its maker not yet being part of a bigger plan (a statement that sounds insane and religious). So we have different opinions here, but they need to be at a certain level of sophistication and not branch off into insanity. Just like the hospital wants to consider every treatment plan that might help patients improve but they will not consider Voodoo, Native American healing rituals, frog poultice, etc...
I'd say I agree with most of what you say, China does not owe the U.S. squat, the U.S. is in fact a bully, constantly taunting poor NK, and a strong China is indeed good for the world.

What China does owe is allegence to the U.N. , Which it is a part of & has delusions of hosting the U.N. permanently in China one day as opposed to NYC.

And by supporting a rogue nation for years that the U.N. has repeatedly censured, China has showed that they are not a peaceful nation, and they support regional chaos just as much as America.

China continues to allow rocket boy to provoke at minimum 3 other Member Countries of the U.N. & refuses to support the Unionification of the Korean Peninsula.

So it is a no brainer that the U.S. must maintain said large presence & rattle it's sabre in the region to protect SK & JP from NK & CHINA.
Owe allegiance to the UN?? What a joke; nobody follows the UN if it's against their own interests. The US just got out-voted 128 to 9 (9 including the US itself, Israel, and several US territories, which, for some reason have a separate vote, so it's really more like 3) on its Jerusalem bid and its reply is that it doesn't care and will do whatever the US sees fit for itself. China too. No strong nation bows to the UN because no strong nation recognizes authority above itself.

China only supports the unification of a Korea under Chinese, not American influence, just like the US only supports a Korea united under American ideology. At any time, either power could back away and Korea would be reunited under the other power but neither are willing to do that. The major difference is that China especially cannot back away because it is right where we live. As I said before, I expect Dotard to do his 100% in Korea to stop China just like the US has done in 1950. China will give our max too. Let's see what the future holds.
 
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Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Here is a good oped relevant to the situation in Korea excellent
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America’s apparent policy failures and declining global influence could trigger more intense criticism against China, blaming it for everything under he sun.

The first sign of this is US President Donald Trump accusing China of breaching United Nations Security Council (UNSC) sanctions against North Korea with the flimsiest of evidence. Second, the US neoconservative crowd appears to have ratcheted up its anti-China rhetoric. Third, tax cuts may not produce the results that Trump is expecting.

China-whipping seems a popular sport in the US, especially during election cycles, and it happens that 2018 will see midterm congressional elections.

Getting tough on China might win votes, but doing so is easier said than done.

Alleged Chinese breaches of UNSC sanctions
President Trump wasted no time – not bothering to check whether the allegation was true or not – in accusing China of breaching UNSC sanctions against North Korea. The “evidence” was a Hong Kong-registered ship chartered by a Taiwanese company unloading its cargo of refined petroleum products from a South Korean port on to a North Korean tanker. The cargo, supposedly destined for Taiwan, anchored in international waters alongside a North Korean tanker to offload it.

How this “proved” that China had contravened UN sanctions was never explained, but that did not stop Trump and some of the “objective and independent” US media from spreading the rumor as fact.

The
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sensationalized the report, proclaiming that there was no question China had violated the sanctions. Trump threatened to “take off [his] nice-guy glove” and follow through on his election-campaign rhetoric of imposing “tough” trade policies against China.

However, imposing heavy trade barriers on Chinese “imports” to the US would be more harmful to the United States’ economy than to China’s. Most of these “imports” may be “made in China,” but “by America.” This amounts to taxing America’s own goods, which could culminate in inflation and loss of business for US retailers and manufacturers requiring parts from China.

Higher prices would reduce consumption further because of a personal-debt-to-income ratio of more than 100%. Costlier parts would erode US manufacturers’ competitiveness.

What’s more, China could retaliate as it did in 2012 against then-president Barack Obama’s decision to impose duties on Chinese-made tires to win votes in Ohio. That policy cost the US economy more than US$2.1 billion, a loss of $1 billion in chicken-parts exports and a $1.1 billion increase in tire prices.

China would also be hit, closing some factories and sending workers to the unemployment line in the short term. But the laid-off workers would return to their villages as they did during the 2008 financial crisis. Foreign investors who own most of the factories (such as Taiwan-owned Foxconn) to which US firms outsourced production would bear the blunt of America’s “tough” trade policy on China.

However, in the medium to longer term, China would recover, given its increasingly affluent 1.3-billion population, Belt and Road Initiative and growing economic relations with nations in Africa, Latin America and other countries not yet involved in the BRI.

As for North Korea’s nuclear program, blaming China for not “doing enough” on the issue might shift the blame from Washington to Beijing but would not deter the hermit kingdom from continuing with its nuclear-weapons programs. Having nuclear arms is its only insurance policy against a US invasion.

Neocons ratcheting up ‘China threat’ rhetoric
US neoconservatives and the Congress will demand tough policies on China, 2018 being in the midterm congressional election cycle. For example, Congress appears to want to pick a fight with China by passing the National Defense Authorization Act allowing US and Taiwanese naval vessels to visit each other’s ports.

However, China’s response was swift and clear: Any US naval vessel anchored at a Taiwan port would invoke its 2005 Anti-Secession Act, allowing the government to use “non-peaceful” means to reunify the island with the mainland.

Turning imagined threat into a real one
The “China threat” is becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. According to Global Firepower, an international organization measuring a country’s military power, China has the world’s third-most-powerful military after the US and Russia.

The country has more than 2,500 combat-ready jet fighters and bombers, 300 warships and submarines, and thousands of short-, medium- and long-range ballistic missiles, some of which can carry up to 10 nuclear warheads. No one really knows how many nuclear warheads China has or their destructive power, with guesses ranging between 250 and 3,000. But precise numbers aside, attacking China could lead to a “mutual assured destruction” scenario.

China’s economic and geopolitical influence is rising in Africa, Latin America, and Central and Eastern Europe because of the investments and trade opportunities it offers. Contrary to the charges of “neocolonialism,” China is actually helping these countries to develop. Building infrastructure, buying resources and investing in manufacturing and resource industries are largely responsible for some countries’ relatively high economic growth rates, exceeding 10% in Ethiopia, for example.

Perhaps the biggest Chinese challenge to US hegemony is in the financial sector. The yuan’s inclusion in the International Monetary Fund’s Special Drawing Rights (SDR) basket has elevated it to reserve-currency status. Beijing has also established “yuan hubs” in which a country can use the Chinese currency to settle trade transactions with China. Forming a “petro-yuan,” allowing oil to be traded in Chinese currency, would raise the yuan’s importance because that would allow such countries as Venezuela, Russia and Iran to bypass US sanctions.

Trump’s tax reforms
It is true that consumption, the economy, stock prices and employment rose in the US at the end of 2017. But that might be a blip rather than a trend.

The rise in consumption took place near or during the Christmas holiday season, a time when people open their wallets. Most of the purchases were on credit, adding to the already heavy consumer debt burden.

The rises in stock prices were largely driven by Trump’s policy of reducing corporate tax from 35% to 21%, sending the message that corporate profits and by extension investment should increase. However, it will take time to rebuild America’s hollowed-out manufacturing sectors. What’s more, there is no reason to believe US businesses would relocate production from China to the US or discontinue automation. The Chinese manufacturing sector is highly efficient and its market too huge and profitable to abandon.

The US unemployment rate declined largely because of a falling participation rate, the percentage of working age people looking for work or already employed. The drop in the unemployment rate occurred near or during the Christmas holidays when people feel generous. What’s more, the employment gains were largely in low-paying service jobs, the reason wages were only marginally improved.

Further, cutting taxes for the richest 1% of Americans could further widen the rich-poor gap, reducing the middle class and increasing the impoverished population, culminating in less consumption. Since investment is largely influenced by demand, the rich might hoard rather than spend or invest their tax savings.

Blaming China will not deter its rise
Taking the debate to its logical conclusion, demonizing and blaming China for its economic woes and loss of global influence would not deter the “communist” country’s rise or increase that of the US. More and more countries, including staunch US allies such as Japan and the UK, find engaging China is more beneficial than confronting it.

China’s pro-globalization stance and leadership in tackling climate change have won most the world’s support and respect. The IMF and other organizations are predicting that China’s “new normal” annual growth rate of 6.5% is doable over the next five years if not longer.

Threatening trade wars and bullying nations into submission would push the US into isolation. As indicated earlier, the US needs external markets, particularly China’s, to reverse economic stagnation and spur long-term growth. Indeed, the IMF predicts a “new mediocrity” annual growth rate of between 1.5% and 2% for the Group of Seven nations (the US, the UK, Germany, France, Canada, Italy and Japan) should protectionism and populism continue.
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
However, imposing heavy trade barriers on Chinese “imports” to the US would be more harmful to the United States’ economy than to China’s. Most of these “imports” may be “made in China,” but “by America.” This amounts to taxing America’s own goods, which could culminate in inflation and loss of business for US retailers and manufacturers requiring parts from China.

Higher prices would reduce consumption further because of a personal-debt-to-income ratio of more than 100%. Costlier parts would erode US manufacturers’ competitiveness.

.
In reality it works by the oposite way.
trade war benefits the deficit country,and damaging the surpluss country.


see 1930.

Of course, without trade deficit the US can not give anything to SK/Japan/Taiwan/China
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
In reality it works by the oposite way.
trade war benefits the deficit country,and damaging the surpluss country.


see 1930.

Of course, without trade deficit the US can not give anything to SK/Japan/Taiwan/China
No, it actually doesn't. 1930's is a completely different economy with much less globalization and intertwinement than 2017. 1930's economy was like if you stopped buying your coffee from Starbucks, Starbucks loses money. Today's economy is like if you stopped buying coffee beans, then the planters lose money and you find that the next best planter up-charges a lot, making your coffee cost much higher, then people start buying your competitor's coffee and your business is tanked because you can't beat your competition. Then, with the increase in sales, your competitor needs more coffee beans for his business and guess who has a surplus because you stopped buying? Your original planter!

In this example, you, Starbucks, your old planter, your new planter, your clients, and your competition all represent different countries part of a globalized economy so I don't want to hear you come back at me with, "But no one's going to leave the country to buy their coffee so they'll just have to suck it up and pay more."

Point is, everyone does business for his own sake. The US government can't make American companies buy foreign in order to spread American influence. The only reason that American companies import is because it's a better deal for their businesses than domestic options. Removing that option will make their lives harder and their businesses less competitive on the global market, and less competitive often means bankrupt.
 
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