China's Space Program Thread II

enroger

Junior Member
Registered Member
That's why I lay the blame on officials and not the private company. The company will always push the envelope and it's the job of the gov to say hold up or say f. NO

Hope they take this opportunity to review their regulation systems and related laws, a lot of private rocket enterprises gonna conduct similar tests in the near future
 

Clark Gap

Junior Member
Registered Member
Some new information about this:

from weibo:
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Based on open source images and related videos, the incident of the Tianlong 3 rocket can be roughly clarified:

After the engine shuts down, we can observe that the engine emits a large amount of hydrocarbon mixture generated by incompletely burned kerosene, which manifests as the black smoke everyone can see. A normally functioning liquid oxygen and kerosene engine would not exhibit such behavior. Therefore, we speculate that the fixation between the restraint release point on the test stand and the first-stage engine frame is not secure. The thrust generated after the rocket ignition exceeds the stress and strength limits at the connection between the restraint release point and the restraint connection mechanism of the arrow tail section. This ultimately leads to the rupture of the connection between the restraint release point and the first-stage engine frame. When the rocket takes off, the restraint release bolt remains fixed on the test stand, damaging the lower frame of the engine compartment and causing structural failure. Multiple explosion-proof partitions and the outer skin of the engine compartment are torn off, some engine nozzles fall off, and a large number of engine pipes begin to break during the ascent. Liquid oxygen and kerosene leak out, causing a fire in the engine compartment, resulting in irreparable catastrophic damage. Some engines fail at takeoff, while others shut down after a period of flight when the HMS (Engine Health Diagnostic System) detects a fault, causing the powerless first-stage rocket to crash into the mountain with black smoke trailing from its tail.

Actually, comparing with other similarly designed rockets like Falcon 9, it is not difficult to see that Falcon 9's traction device is connected to the engine frame, so the entire first stage is used as the load-bearing structure for restraint. However, Tianlong 3 has an independent engine compartment (tail section). Because the engine frame connected to the arrow body is not connected to the restraint mechanism, and the connection strength of the independent engine compartment is insufficient, it tears apart due to the strong stress of the restraint release device during takeoff. Overall, the issue with the test stand restraint release is minor; the real problem lies in the design of the rocket's first stage.

During the flight, the rocket body ascends in a spinning state. Comprehensive analysis suggests that there may be a leakage in the engine or other parts, but this debuff ironically saves Tianlong 3 and Tianbing, ultimately maintaining their attitude without flying sideways.

From the design of the rocket body and test stand to the final approval of the test plan, multiple departments should have collaborated and repeatedly reviewed the strength of structural components and the rationality of the design. However, it is absurd that no one could identify such a basic yet fatal mistake during this process, which is truly embarrassing.

Video:
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Imgae:
1719987902831.jpeg
 

Clark Gap

Junior Member
Registered Member
Some new information about this:

from weibo:
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Translate:

Based on open source images and related videos, the incident of the Tianlong 3 rocket can be roughly clarified:

After the engine shuts down, we can observe that the engine emits a large amount of hydrocarbon mixture generated by incompletely burned kerosene, which manifests as the black smoke everyone can see. A normally functioning liquid oxygen and kerosene engine would not exhibit such behavior. Therefore, we speculate that the fixation between the restraint release point on the test stand and the first-stage engine frame is not secure. The thrust generated after the rocket ignition exceeds the stress and strength limits at the connection between the restraint release point and the restraint connection mechanism of the arrow tail section. This ultimately leads to the rupture of the connection between the restraint release point and the first-stage engine frame. When the rocket takes off, the restraint release bolt remains fixed on the test stand, damaging the lower frame of the engine compartment and causing structural failure. Multiple explosion-proof partitions and the outer skin of the engine compartment are torn off, some engine nozzles fall off, and a large number of engine pipes begin to break during the ascent. Liquid oxygen and kerosene leak out, causing a fire in the engine compartment, resulting in irreparable catastrophic damage. Some engines fail at takeoff, while others shut down after a period of flight when the HMS (Engine Health Diagnostic System) detects a fault, causing the powerless first-stage rocket to crash into the mountain with black smoke trailing from its tail.

Actually, comparing with other similarly designed rockets like Falcon 9, it is not difficult to see that Falcon 9's traction device is connected to the engine frame, so the entire first stage is used as the load-bearing structure for restraint. However, Tianlong 3 has an independent engine compartment (tail section). Because the engine frame connected to the arrow body is not connected to the restraint mechanism, and the connection strength of the independent engine compartment is insufficient, it tears apart due to the strong stress of the restraint release device during takeoff. Overall, the issue with the test stand restraint release is minor; the real problem lies in the design of the rocket's first stage.

During the flight, the rocket body ascends in a spinning state. Comprehensive analysis suggests that there may be a leakage in the engine or other parts, but this debuff ironically saves Tianlong 3 and Tianbing, ultimately maintaining their attitude without flying sideways.

From the design of the rocket body and test stand to the final approval of the test plan, multiple departments should have collaborated and repeatedly reviewed the strength of structural components and the rationality of the design. However, it is absurd that no one could identify such a basic yet fatal mistake during this process, which is truly embarrassing.

Video:
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Imgae:
View attachment 131898

So, it's not an issue with the launch pad or the fixing connection mechanism, but rather a problem with the reserved fixing position on the first stage of the Tianbing-3 rocket. It's akin to fixing the bumper to hold a car...

1719983372028_by_filter.jpg
 
Last edited:

huemens

Junior Member
Registered Member
Some new information about this:

from weibo:
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Translate:

Based on open source images and related videos, the incident of the Tianlong 3 rocket can be roughly clarified:

After the engine shuts down, we can observe that the engine emits a large amount of hydrocarbon mixture generated by incompletely burned kerosene, which manifests as the black smoke everyone can see. A normally functioning liquid oxygen and kerosene engine would not exhibit such behavior. Therefore, we speculate that the fixation between the restraint release point on the test stand and the first-stage engine frame is not secure. The thrust generated after the rocket ignition exceeds the stress and strength limits at the connection between the restraint release point and the restraint connection mechanism of the arrow tail section. This ultimately leads to the rupture of the connection between the restraint release point and the first-stage engine frame. When the rocket takes off, the restraint release bolt remains fixed on the test stand, damaging the lower frame of the engine compartment and causing structural failure. Multiple explosion-proof partitions and the outer skin of the engine compartment are torn off, some engine nozzles fall off, and a large number of engine pipes begin to break during the ascent. Liquid oxygen and kerosene leak out, causing a fire in the engine compartment, resulting in irreparable catastrophic damage. Some engines fail at takeoff, while others shut down after a period of flight when the HMS (Engine Health Diagnostic System) detects a fault, causing the powerless first-stage rocket to crash into the mountain with black smoke trailing from its tail.

Actually, comparing with other similarly designed rockets like Falcon 9, it is not difficult to see that Falcon 9's traction device is connected to the engine frame, so the entire first stage is used as the load-bearing structure for restraint. However, Tianlong 3 has an independent engine compartment (tail section). Because the engine frame connected to the arrow body is not connected to the restraint mechanism, and the connection strength of the independent engine compartment is insufficient, it tears apart due to the strong stress of the restraint release device during takeoff. Overall, the issue with the test stand restraint release is minor; the real problem lies in the design of the rocket's first stage.

During the flight, the rocket body ascends in a spinning state. Comprehensive analysis suggests that there may be a leakage in the engine or other parts, but this debuff ironically saves Tianlong 3 and Tianbing, ultimately maintaining their attitude without flying sideways.

From the design of the rocket body and test stand to the final approval of the test plan, multiple departments should have collaborated and repeatedly reviewed the strength of structural components and the rationality of the design. However, it is absurd that no one could identify such a basic yet fatal mistake during this process, which is truly embarrassing.

Video:
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Imgae:
View attachment 131898

Falcon 9 also adds an extra weight on top of the stage and then attach cables from it to the ground.

falcon-9-static-test.jpeg
 

Clark Gap

Junior Member
Registered Member
Falcon 9 also adds an extra weight on top of the stage and then attach cables from it to the ground.

View attachment 131903
The fixing mechanism is not only involved during the testing phase, but also plays a vital role during the launch phase, specifically in restraint and release. It holds the rocket steady during ignition until sufficient thrust is achieved, and then releases it. To put it another way, if Tianbing had opted to use additional measures to immobilize the rocket for the static test, it could have potentially led to a catastrophic loss of control during the actual launch.
 

by78

General
An
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that explores possible methods used for mapping a lunar lava
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. It's proposed that three rovers carry out the mission. A mother rover carrying two small rovers approaches the lava tube and maps its entrance. The mother rover then releases the two small rovers to explore the interior of the tube. One of the small rovers is tethered to the mother rover by a wire, which provides the small rover with both power and communications. The other small rover is a hopper+crawler combo that lands on the bottom of the lava tube and then proceeds to map the interior using lidar.


53819741122_e4a8ce835b_o.jpg
53820996379_7e97b4f588_o.jpg

Three proposed options for setting up a lunar habitat within lava tubes/pits, with the inflatable habitat being the cheapest and the easiest to deploy, followed by directly landing a more permanent and solidly constructed module into a lava pit. Building a habitat from scratch in the lava tube is the most technologically challenging and expensive option.

53832660450_aac0eb4efa_o.jpg
53831311942_e3918bc1b3_o.jpg
53832226536_6043bbd08c_o.jpg
 

coolgod

Major
Registered Member
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NASA administrator weighs in on China’s historic lunar far side samples — and potential US access​

China welcomes scientists from all countries to apply (to study the samples) and share in the benefits,” said Liu Yunfeng, director of the international cooperation office of the China National Space Administration (CNSA), during a Thursday news conference in Beijing.

NASA Administrator Bill Nelson told CNN he’s “pleased to hear CNSA intends to share” the materials collected by the Chang’e-6 lunar probe last month. The samples, gathered using a drill and a mechanical arm, include up to 4.4 pounds (2 kilograms) of lunar dust and rocks from an ancient crater on the moon’s far side, which is never visible to Earth.

Make it available to the international community just as we will when we start bringing additional samples back, and as we did a half a century ago with the samples brought back from the six Apollo moon landings,” Nelson said.

It’s a rare moment of consensus for two space agencies competing to land astronauts on the moon and build a base near the lunar south pole. But US access to the samples may be stymied by a
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known as the
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, which prohibits the use of government funds by NASA for bilateral cooperation with China or its agencies without authorization from Congress or the Federal Bureau of Investigation, effectively banning the space agency from routinely working with its Chinese counterpart.

The root cause of obstacles to China-US space cooperation lies in US domestic laws, such as the Wolf Amendment, which hinder cooperation between the two countries in space exploration,” said Bian Zhigang, vice chair of the China National Space Administration, during the Thursday news conference. “If the US truly wishes to engage in normal space exchanges with China, I think they should take concrete measures to remove these obstacles.

We are going through the process right now with our scientists and our lawyers to make sure that the instructions and guardrails that the Chinese are insisting on … are not a violation of the law, the Wolf Amendment,” Nelson told CNN. “As of this moment, I don’t see a violation.

Any similar application to study the Chang’e-6 samples must pass the same vetting process, Nelson said. The US space agency “will continue to determine whether NASA-funded scientists and organizations can access the samples in accordance with Congressional restrictions on NASA interactions with CNSA.”

Wow the US is really desperate to get their hands on those lunar samples. Don't they trust the rest of the scientific community (excluding China)?

China top tier trolling continues by giving three lucky netizens free samples of the moon :p
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montyp165

Senior Member
Hope they take this opportunity to review their regulation systems and related laws, a lot of private rocket enterprises gonna conduct similar tests in the near future
To expand on these earlier points, risk taking is very much necessary but needs prudence for effective payoffs; private industry can afford more risks as it's normally only their resources at play, but government resources are the public's and need to be more judiciously implemented. Both processes can be synergistic especially when private resources can assist where the public ones aren't in a position to do so.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Some new information about this:

from weibo:
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Translate:

Based on open source images and related videos, the incident of the Tianlong 3 rocket can be roughly clarified:

After the engine shuts down, we can observe that the engine emits a large amount of hydrocarbon mixture generated by incompletely burned kerosene, which manifests as the black smoke everyone can see. A normally functioning liquid oxygen and kerosene engine would not exhibit such behavior. Therefore, we speculate that the fixation between the restraint release point on the test stand and the first-stage engine frame is not secure. The thrust generated after the rocket ignition exceeds the stress and strength limits at the connection between the restraint release point and the restraint connection mechanism of the arrow tail section. This ultimately leads to the rupture of the connection between the restraint release point and the first-stage engine frame. When the rocket takes off, the restraint release bolt remains fixed on the test stand, damaging the lower frame of the engine compartment and causing structural failure. Multiple explosion-proof partitions and the outer skin of the engine compartment are torn off, some engine nozzles fall off, and a large number of engine pipes begin to break during the ascent. Liquid oxygen and kerosene leak out, causing a fire in the engine compartment, resulting in irreparable catastrophic damage. Some engines fail at takeoff, while others shut down after a period of flight when the HMS (Engine Health Diagnostic System) detects a fault, causing the powerless first-stage rocket to crash into the mountain with black smoke trailing from its tail.

Actually, comparing with other similarly designed rockets like Falcon 9, it is not difficult to see that Falcon 9's traction device is connected to the engine frame, so the entire first stage is used as the load-bearing structure for restraint. However, Tianlong 3 has an independent engine compartment (tail section). Because the engine frame connected to the arrow body is not connected to the restraint mechanism, and the connection strength of the independent engine compartment is insufficient, it tears apart due to the strong stress of the restraint release device during takeoff. Overall, the issue with the test stand restraint release is minor; the real problem lies in the design of the rocket's first stage.

During the flight, the rocket body ascends in a spinning state. Comprehensive analysis suggests that there may be a leakage in the engine or other parts, but this debuff ironically saves Tianlong 3 and Tianbing, ultimately maintaining their attitude without flying sideways.

From the design of the rocket body and test stand to the final approval of the test plan, multiple departments should have collaborated and repeatedly reviewed the strength of structural components and the rationality of the design. However, it is absurd that no one could identify such a basic yet fatal mistake during this process, which is truly embarrassing.

Video:
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Imgae:
View attachment 131898
I checked the weibo post, I fail to see how the person can reach his conclusion from "open source images and related videos" which are either granny videos or non existent (the accompanied picture). Especially the 1st stage structure related to the engine mounting and holding connection. The central point of the "analysis" is "However, Tianlong 3 has an independent engine compartment (tail section). " A different color of the tail section means independent engine compartment. That is a huge stretch or "脑洞". It is like saying space shuttle's wings are two pieces because the upper and under sides are of different colors. Then the article use this "not proven" imagination to conclude the rocket 1st stage design is faulty. I'd say the whole "analysis" is a SISO.

The 2nd video shows from the top that does not show the supposed destruction of engines or the mounting positions. Demaging of some engines and tearing of the "tail section" as the "analysis" suggested would have caused the rocket immediately turn side ways. But the rocket lifted straight up instead indicating the holddown clamps released/failed equally due to thrust exceeding threshold. This acutally is in line with the companies official statement.
 
Last edited:

sunnymaxi

Captain
Registered Member

This is from Chinese Academy of Sciences ..

The extremotolerant desert moss Syntrichia caninervis is a promising pioneer plant for colonizing extraterrestrial environments​


Chinese scientists have proposed that desert
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Syntrichia caninervis, which can survive up to 5 years at -80°C, and regenerate after dehydration and gamma irradiation, is a promising pioneer plant for
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exploration, opening potential for building biologically sustainable human habitats beyond Earth ..

Image

Image


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