China's Space Program News Thread

[kroko]

Re:

First of all it saves time. China's space hardware seems to be a carbon copy of Russian gear. The suits are copied after the Russians. The Shenzhou spacecraft is a copy of Soyuz. I mean the Chinese have enjoyed a major advantage by standing on the shoulders of the Russians.

But at some point the Chinese will have to stand on their own two feet. That day will come when they attempt to go to the moon. The Russians never made it because they didn't have the technology. So that means China will have to model their approach after what has worked and that means the American Apollo program. The Chinese moon program should prove interesting.




LEO is not much of a milestone today when you have a space tourist industry gearing up to where common citizens can buy a seat on a ship going into earth orbit. Chinese efforts are not that impressive. For a few hundred thousand dollars I will soon be able to wave at Chinese taikonauts attempting to assemble their orbital station

hey nikex, why dont you admit that you are just trolling in this thread ?

 

[Blitzo]

Re:

First of all it saves time. China's space hardware seems to be a carbon copy of Russian gear. The suits are copied after the Russians. The Shenzhou spacecraft is a copy of Soyuz. I mean the Chinese have enjoyed a major advantage by standing on the shoulders of the Russians.

So you have to balance speed and the benefits which come with self reliance (that is learning some lessons yourself, developing indigenous industries etc). Dont' get me wrong, I'm not saying china shouldn't cooperate with anyone. quite the opposite -- I hope they do cooperate internationally, but apparently the US doesn't want that, on ISS at least. But I am saying there are some advantages and to doing various aspects of space yourself

But at some point the Chinese will have to stand on their own two feet. That day will come when they attempt to go to the moon. The Russians never made it because they didn't have the technology. So that means China will have to model their approach after what has worked and that means the American Apollo program. The Chinese moon program should prove interesting.

I posted some pics a few months back, scans from a sort of feasibility study(?) in what a chinese moon mission could look like. One is idea is to use the CZ-5 rockets and boost various modules and conduct earth orbit rendezvous before heading to the moon (2-3 people a trip, sorta like constellation). The other idea, or a possible follow up mission is to develop a whole new 130 LEO ton rocket where five people can be sent at a time, with intention to build a permanent moon base.

posted by xyz over at cdf

LEO is not much of a milestone today when you have a space tourist industry gearing up to where common citizens can buy a seat on a ship going into earth orbit. Chinese efforts are not that impressive. For a few hundred thousand dollars I will soon be able to wave at Chinese taikonauts attempting to assemble their orbital station

The benefits of private vs public space industry has been debated already and both have their strengths. But until the day private ventures make more launches than public, the statement is moot.

 

[NikeX]

Re:

Your belief was that it was impossible for china to catch up, I rebutted it saying it was certainly a possibility, and now you're ignoring it. Thus am I correct in assuming that you concede this point?

But what can China catch up to? Maybe China can achieve parity in low earth orbit, but but it is unlikely that they will achieve parity in lunar exploration or missions to Mars.

The reason being is that America loves competition and if it appears that China is about to achieve a breakthrough somewhere you can be sure that America will respond fully and completely with its own breakthroughs.

Never forget that America went to the moon in ten years. And this was after starting from a standing start. Russia had already launched a man into space, Yuri Gagarin, while America had not even achieved sub-orbital flight.

The new game changer is private space. American private space is strictly a home grown product that is dedicated to the revival of American space leadership. American private space is a throwback to the old days of competition between Russia and America. American private space is even more nationalistic than the Chinese space program.

Where China's space program has this military favor, the new American space effort is dedicated to the raw love of space travel.

No one is trying to stop China from going into space. But the Americans are a force to be reckoned with at the end of the day. Don't count them out as a has-been power.

---------- Post added at 07:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:29 PM ----------

hey nikex, why dont you admit that you are just trolling in this thread ?

Why don't you admit that I am upsetting the apple cart with these questions I pose that are making people uncomfortable since they have never thought about things the way I am posing them and cannot provide coherent answers

However if you wish me to refrain from pressing the point then just say so and I will relent.

 

[Blitzo]

Re:

But what can China catch up to? Maybe China can achieve parity in low earth orbit, but but it is unlikely that they will achieve parity in lunar exploration or missions to Mars.

That is a good question, how do you measure achievements in space in the first place?

The reason being is that America loves competition and if it appears that China is about to achieve a breakthrough somewhere you can be sure that America will respond fully and completely with its own breakthroughs.

Never forget that America went to the moon in ten years. And this was after starting from a standing start. Russia had already launched a man into space, Yuri Gagarin, while America had not even achieved sub-orbital flight.

Your point being?

The new game changer is private space. American private space is strictly a home grown product that is dedicated to the revival of American space leadership. American private space is a throwback to the old days of competition between Russia and America. American private space is even more nationalistic than the Chinese space program.

We'll see if private space offers what it promises in time.

Although I don't think there is a "competition" between private space and the chinese space program, and even if it were, a comparison with the space race of the cold war isn't quite accurate. It's sort of more like "who can send people to space more cheaply" at the moment, rather than "who can get to the moon first".

Where China's space program has this military favor, the new American space effort is dedicated to the raw love of space travel.

Lol right. I'm sorry it's hard to take what a person says seriously if they use words like "raw love".

No one is trying to stop China from going into space. But the Americans are a force to be reckoned with at the end of the day. Don't count them out as a has-been power.

No one is counting out america, but you have been counting out china.

 

[NikeX]

Re:

I posted some pics a few months back, scans from a sort of feasibility study(?) in what a chinese moon mission could look like. One is idea is to use the CZ-5 rockets and boost various modules and conduct earth orbit rendezvous before heading to the moon (2-3 people a trip, sorta like constellation). The other idea, or a possible follow up mission is to develop a whole new 130 LEO ton rocket where five people can be sent at a time, with intention to build a permanent moon base.

Assembling a lunar vehicle in Earth orbit was discussed during the Apollo program and rejected for the LEM - CM stack that proved successful. The approach being proposed by the Chinese is possible but untried.

But more power to China if they wish to try that approach. I will be waiting to see that concept tried

 

[AssassinsMace]

Re:

Who's complaining? I just am trying to get to the bottom of China trying to go it alone in space. Can you answer that question?



Just asking why doesn't China partner up with another space faring country? Why don't they and save themselves some time and money?

Of course you're not complaining. It was rhetorical. Like I said you were just being insulting hiding it in discourse.

It's better China goes it alone. Like you think that's bad? It's called being independent. Just look at any news article's comments talking about the upcoming launch. Look at how many people don't want it to happen and call for it to be shot down. If China is backward, what are you all afraid of?


China is already saving money which is why the West sees China in space as a threat and competition. China is going a lot further than Space X.

 

[bladerunner]

Re:

I was always under the impression that Pres.Regan offered the Chinese a ride into space aboard the shuttle.

 

[NikeX]

Re:

That is a good question, how do you measure achievements in space in the first place?

Taking the risk like Apollo 8 did

".....Apollo 8 (AS-503) was launched from KSC Launch Complex 39, Pad A, at 7:51 a.m. EST Dec. 21 on a Saturn V booster. The spacecraft crew was made up of Frank Borman, James A. Lovell, Jr., and William A. Anders. Apollo 8 was the first spacecraft to be launched by a Saturn V with a crew on board, and that crew became the first men to fly around the moon...."

Apollo 8 was a leap of faith because the Saturn 5 had never been flown with men aboard. And the Apollo command module could have failed to leave moon orbit and stranded the crew in lunar orbit.

That was a risky mission by any measure of the imagination

Your point being?

And my point is that if it appears that China is making progress towards lunar exploration you can be sure that the American space program will do something to top them. That is what competition is all about.

 

[bladerunner]

Re:

Look at how many people don't want it to happen and call for it to be shot down. If China is backward, what are you all afraid of?

Whose calling for the Chinese launch to be shot down?

 

[Schumacher]

Re:

But what can China catch up to? Maybe China can achieve parity in low earth orbit, but but it is unlikely that they will achieve parity in lunar exploration or missions to Mars.

The reason being is that America loves competition and if it appears that China is about to achieve a breakthrough somewhere you can be sure that America will respond fully and completely with its own breakthroughs.

Never forget that America went to the moon in ten years. And this was after starting from a standing start. Russia had already launched a man into space, Yuri Gagarin, while America had not even achieved sub-orbital flight.

The new game changer is private space. American private space is strictly a home grown product that is dedicated to the revival of American space leadership. American private space is a throwback to the old days of competition between Russia and America. American private space is even more nationalistic than the Chinese space program.

Where China's space program has this military favor, the new American space effort is dedicated to the raw love of space travel.

No one is trying to stop China from going into space. But the Americans are a force to be reckoned with at the end of the day. Don't count them out as a has-been power.
....................

Right now, China is already exceeding US in the number of launch and manned flight. US may not be a has been but it remains to be seen when or if they can catch up to China again.
I don't see how private space is a game changer. US has problems making competitive space tech, I doubt re-labeling as private will make much difference. It may just end up needing government hand-outs like many other US sectors.