China's SCS Strategy Thread

[cft4201]

No, collision and interception are common tactics used in maritime law enforcement, at least in the East China Sea and the South China Sea. CCG has been ramming with the Japan Coast Guard for quiet some time. Such squeeze-water cannon-collision tactic is actually very effective in SCS over the past year.

PCG's larger ships, like those 1,000-2,500-ton patrol ships, no longer dare to approach, allowing CCG and PLAN to effectively control Huangyan.

It can even be said that PCG's use of small and fast 100-ton patrol ships is due to necessity. Just because an accident and the fact that CCG cannot deploy enough patrol boats to counter the PCG patrol boats due to range constraints, it does not mean that the tactics themselves are completely wrong.

Instead, I think the Coast Guard needs a smaller vessel that is more manoeuvrable and faster, akin to a Type 022 but strengthened.

 

[france75]

bureaucratic habits

 

[valysre]

CCG cannot deploy enough patrol boats to counter the PCG patrol boats due to range constraints

Given that the PLAN already deploys in the area, why not use an LHD with a well deck to bring in smaller patrol boats? I think the small boat the PCG was using in this incident could fit, given some finangling to keep a boat with an actual keel upright when the well deck is not flooded.

 

[bsdnf]

Instead, I think the Coast Guard needs a smaller vessel that is more manoeuvrable and faster, akin to a Type 022 but strengthened.

The problem with CCG is that the ships that have enough self-sustaining are too large and inflexible, while the small ships that are flexible enough are not self-sustaining enough.

CCG actually borrowed a group of 300 ton anti-smuggling patrol boats from the Guangdong Coast Guard, which also had a very good interception effect on PCG patrol boats.

But the problem is that it is too far from the mainland base to Huangyan, and the patrol boats take a lot of time to go back and forth, and they can't stay for long.

 

[Jiang ZeminFanboy]

The problem with CCG is that the ships that have enough self-sustaining power are too large and inflexible, while the small ships that are flexible enough are not self-sustaining enough.

CCG actually borrowed a group of 300 ton anti-smuggling patrol boats from the Guangdong Coast Guard, which also had a very good interception effect on PCG patrol boats.

But the problem is that it is too far from the mainland base to Huangyan, and the patrol boats take a lot of time to go back and forth, and they can't stay for long.

So I guess it's time to build a new Island

 

[Engineer]

If you are asking what efforts the PLAN could make to prevent the PCG from physically confronting them, there is no definitive method.
That is the whole purpose of these "I'm not touching you"/bumper boat style games, or so called grey zone is that neither side has the ability to deter the other, only to try and alter the other side's risk calculus.

Uh no. I am saying and have been saying all along that the Filipino crew had no reason (such as getting blasted) not to approach the destroyer if they saw an tactical advantage to do so. We both already agreed that they wouldn't get blasted, and we both agreed that the Filipino crew most likely came to the same conclusion. The end.

You are missing the point.

It was not the responsibility of DDG164 to deter the PCG boats. It was the responsibility of the destroyer to prevent itself from finding itself in a situation where it would need to deter the PCG boats to begin with.

That is why operating naval ships in close frays like this is confusing, if not stupid -- because there is no situation where they are able to leverage lethal force in these type of grey zone confrontations.

Not really. The destroyer could have remained well over the horizon beyond line of sight, with sufficient room to maintain an overwatch distance and to have enough space to out keep that distance if they wanted, or in a manner to remain still and dare the PCG boat to get into their face and risk a collision with a larger vessel.

At minimum, getting within physical contact range of a friendly CCG boat (where they were clearly manevuering in a manner in competition with the PCG boat) was obviously a poor decision.

The only way this could have made sense is if all PRC vessels in that instance were given the command to physically scare off the PCG boat, with other priorities considered secondary

Let's us do a little recap. In the beginning, you pin the blame entirely on the destroyer's CO stating you were "not going to rule out the possibility of a CO being gung-ho". Afterward, you claimed the destroyer should have "extradited itself" which is basically the same as running away. Now you expected the destroyer should not have shown up or at least stay at the horizon. Forgive me for being blunt but this is sign of poor reasoning and we are wasting our time. At least you seem to have gave up that ridiculous "gung-ho" CO scenario, so progress I guess?

So, no. While I agree that the destroyer shouldn't be in that situation, the responsibility of the destroyer is to carry out its orders, whatever they may be. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[bsdnf]

So I guess it's time to build a new Island

The problem with building an island is that Huangyan is the only suitable island in the Zhongsha Islands, no more suitable locations between Huangyan, the Dongsha Islands, and Yongxing Island. Therefore, the best solution to solve the range issue is just build there.

However, Huangyan is every close to the Philippine coast. Building an island would mean completely strangling Manila not only in terms of maritime law enforcement but also on a military level, which contradicts China's principle of "sustained limited conflict." Although China maintains a strong position on the SCS, building an island bordering the 9-dash line remains a risky option.

Therefore, I think that in the short term, CCG can consider establishing and expanding the scale of small patrol boats stationed on Yongxing Island. This will not only be useful for maritime law enforcement in the Xisha Islands, but also save half the distance to Huangyan compared to departing from the mainland.

 

[Engineer]

Instead, I think the Coast Guard needs a smaller vessel that is more manoeuvrable and faster, akin to a Type 022 but strengthened.

CGC does have smaller vessels, but as someone pointed out already these don't have the endurance. They are also not any faster than 056s.

 

[Inque]

I don't know what the fuss is all about. Why are people acting like this is a shameful incident? There is nothing shameful in defending one's sovereignty, mistakes and all.

This has nothing to do with defending China's sovereignty when the Scarborough Shoal is closer to the Philippines than China.