China's SCS Strategy Thread

[LawLeadsToPeace]

I just deleted a series of off-topic posts that ranged from politics to insults. Do note that such posts are not allowed in technical threads like this one. In addition, given the nature of this thread, it is very easy to go off topic into the realm of politics. Think twice before posting something that can lead to a "good vs evil" debate.

 

[Bellum_Romanum]

This is a classic event where “David defeated Goliath”.
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——I completely agree with this statement. As shown in the picture, the problem is still the lack of determination from the leadership. They only want interest, but they don't want to take any risks, afraid of the diplomatic and political risks brought by the escalation of the situation. So they threw the heavy responsibility onto the frontline personnel.

My attitude has never changed in recent years. 'Enduring' is just an excuse to cover up the timidity and incompetence of the leadership.

Such BS and unfettered hypocrisy.

Where were these so called "rules" that you do proudly tout when the US was bombing sovereign countries?
Where were these so called "rules" when the US overthrew democratically elected governments?
Where were your so called "rules" for the Palestinians undergoing genocide and starvation?
Where were your so called "rules" when the US reneged on previous trade agreements and basically sidelined the WTO?
Where were your so called "rules" when US sanctions countries with medical emergencies? Eg. Blocked medical equipment to Cuba during the pandemic, hoarded vaccines.
Where were your so called "rules" when the US refused to vacate Cuban land in Guantanamo bay, where they abused many innocent prisoners.

Shall I go on?

Let me guess? "Rules for thou, but not rules for me".

Don't bring your "holier than thou " attitude here. We see through the hypocrisy pretty clearly.

The dude sounds like that tough talking but a wimp in real life Singaporean analyst with a last name Koh.

The man was ragging against another member's overview analysis of the situation that was quite erudite and his response was "hahaha you're just echoing Beijing's talking points" as if his talking points are bleeping original and not lifted word for word out of the many think tanks from the U.S. including India. What a hoot!! And the @KFX you dare invoke MUH INTERNATIONAL LAW? shove it up your metaphorical bum because that talking point is as laughable as saying that "ISRAEL HAS A RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF" bullshit!

 

[siegecrossbow]

Have some decency man. 3 perished in the line of duty, you can see them on the footage moments before the collision with 2 of them trying to cushion the impact till the last moment.

They got more guts than any of us here.

There is a chance that he made it up…

 

[daifo]

No soldiers died in the incident: are you confusing soldier with coast guard? Yes, any loss of life is tragic and the coast guardsmen were in a way serving their country; but there is a huge difference between a PLAN serviceman and a coast guard member. One is a patriot dedicated to protecting his nation, and the other either couldn't find a better job or didn't want to do any jobs involving hard work. If the 056 involved was a PLAN 056 screwed by PLAN sailors, then the chance of a collision occurring would have been substantively lower.

That is an odd statement. The Chinese coast guard is part of the PAP which is part of the Chinese military. Even a large part of "fisherman" are part or becomes part the naval militia. Folks asked to risk their lives for their country

 

[siegecrossbow]

Water cannon revenge.

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[tonyget]

The collision video has been taken down from Chinese internet. I don't understand what's the big deal of it，it's just an accident. Military units accidentally hit by friendly fire all the time all around the world，the is no shame about it.

 

[Racek49]

Navies don't train at all for this kind of plays. Some coast guard personnel do for anti-smuggling purposes. The thing is though, anti-smuggling is done by small boats against small boats. Ramming has no place in naval combat or even territory enforcement. Modern warships are all soft skin vessels to start with.
The ultimate blame here goes to the leaders who adopted ramming as policy. It is just dangerous, ineffective and looks ridiculuous.

You are of course right, but the reality is that for deterrent and defensive actions it is currently necessary to choose just such tactics.. after all, ramming is not exactly the same as pushing. In 1988, I think, there was a push-over off the coast of Crimea between a US destroyer and a Russian corvette, which the US won due to its greater speed. It was not the first case, there are also talks of similar submarine battles. In my opinion, the Navy must be capable of such operations, especially as large as the Chinese. Unfortunately, the situation is such and the courage of the Filipinos will only increase, especially when they have older ships of their allies at their disposal.

 

[texx1]

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There is a chance that he made it up…

That's just standard prudent practice of how posters protect themselves on Chinese social media. Any info not released by state media can be legally considered as a rumor, thus spreading it can be punished by account bans or prosecuted for seeking quarrels (寻衅滋事). Spreading unauthorized information even when 99% accurate can lead to charges especially regarding Chinese military and Chinese politics.

In this case the pro establishment poster (鬼谷子兔爷) is trying fish an admission out of poster (海洋装备) for spreading rumor about the collision. For those who have seen the collision footage, it’s not hard to suspect there were casualties among sailors putting up crush barriers at CG cutter’s bow. Poster (海洋装备) might have insider info from his contacts but he’s not going to make a public admission.

Given the embarrassing nature of this incident and sensitive timing (Sept 3 parade), the collision footage is being actively censored on Chinese internet. Pro establishment netizens are simply trying to influence the domestic narrative by attacking any unflattering details about this incident.

 

[bsdnf]

Navies don't train at all for this kind of plays. Some coast guard personnel do for anti-smuggling purposes. The thing is though, anti-smuggling is done by small boats against small boats. Ramming has no place in naval combat or even territory enforcement. Modern warships are all soft skin vessels to start with.
The ultimate blame here goes to the leaders who adopted ramming as policy. It is just dangerous, ineffective and looks ridiculuous.

No, collision and interception are common tactics used in maritime law enforcement, at least in the East China Sea and the South China Sea. CCG has been ramming with the Japan Coast Guard for quiet some time. Such squeeze-water cannon-collision tactic is actually very effective in SCS over the past year.

PCG's larger ships, like those 1,000-2,500-ton patrol ships, no longer dare to approach, allowing CCG and PLAN to effectively control Huangyan.

It can even be said that PCG's use of small and fast 100-ton patrol ships is due to necessity. Just because an accident and the fact that CCG cannot deploy enough patrol boats to counter the PCG patrol boats due to range constraints, it does not mean that the tactics themselves are completely wrong.

 

[bsdnf]

In fact, if those "neutral", "objective" and "professional" media really want to accuse of being unprofessional because of the risks involved (such as those accusations to the close interception of the PLAAF), then the PCG side is the real unprofessional.

It was it that took the initiative to intrude into the path of the 164 with the CCG ship. If the PCG ship failed, the entire ship would have been split in two, with even higher casualties.

But they won’t. Instead, they will lead the audience to brag about PCG’s “professionalism” and “David defeating Goliath”, but it cannot change the fact that PCG is powerless to change the status quo.