China's SCS Strategy Thread

[Wrought]

We don't want blood shed or war, and I am not a warmonger. We'll hope that PH and American provocations will not lead to an accident that will force the Chinese government hands otherwise it'll be unfortunate for all of us. I wonder, though, if there's shooting and even death on the Chinese navy what would your stance be? Oh, it's just one or two lives, we shouldn't go to war. Let China continue doing business to make money.

China was lost and was reassembled back together in a costly, bloody war that involved millions of Chinese lives you seem to forget that. It took the current political system, and the man with the balls of steel, MAO ZEDONG to reforge back China whole again. Prior to him and the party rising to power there were many Chinese who lost faith of themselves, became ashamed of their heritage a.k.a. Hanjians, that still reverberate to some Chinese people to this day. I think your opinion comes across cowardly and transactional. The very trait that cost China 100 Century humiliation

If you aren't a warmonger, then you do a good job acting like one. The fact is there will always be people who oppose you, and getting upset about it is foolish. Any response to provocations must be calculated carefully, not made in anger. Is there a war today because two fishermen died? Of course not. Their sacrifice is used intelligently, not recklessly, to slowly chip away at separatism. And that is the correct approach to use in the future, if any more unfortunate deaths should happen. It's not about money, it's about whether war serves the interests of the nation here and now. If war is inevitable, as I personally suspect, then it absolutely must start with the best possible timing to inflict the maximum possible damage to the enemy. Because the US will defend its hegemony at all costs, and China cannot afford to lose that war. There are no second chances in real life.

What cost China a hundred years of humiliation was hotheaded idiots like you trying to fight Western technology with their fists, thinking that righteousness would save them from bullets. It didn't.

 

[GenghisCant]

The more China pushes, the more philippines is going to double on its allies. - Richard Heydarian

So, China will be forced to cower in fear due to Philippines allies!!

Heydrian might be who Philippine mainstream media look to in terms of geopolitics, but he is a moron. Unfortunately, figures who are more learned in geopolitics like Sasot are essentially gagged by MSM. The Philippines is essentially alienating itself from the rest of ASEAN by being an American vassal.

 

[ansy1968]

Heydrian might be who Philippine mainstream media look to in terms of geopolitics, but he is a moron. Unfortunately, figures who are more learned in geopolitics like Sasot are essentially gagged by MSM.

From the tone of your post, looks like you're a fellow Filipino so Mabuhay welcome to the forum. You know how our Media operates, you speak Pretty English you set for life...lol. He is a professor of my Alma Mater DLSU which is where most of the political elites and oligarchy beside Ateneo De Manila were educated. Those 2 schools plus UST were operated by the church so you can see how deep they have brainwashed our youth.

Talking about the left (CPP NPA) I'm disappointed, they were being coopted by the elites. I'm expecting a strong opposition from them with daily rallies as they used to do, now as Marcos extend EDCA they were meek as a mouse, they were paid off and become an agent of CIA. Maybe it was due to the death of Joma Sison their chief ideologue or the left had become the new right as we lived in a clown world where principle and ideology are being cast away or sold to the highest bidder.

The Philippines is essentially alienating itself from the rest of ASEAN by being an American vassal.

Who will respect us when we voted 2 incompetent feuding Families in Pinoy and BBM as President, a drunkard in Joseph Estrada and a corrupt President in Arroyo who fake apologies makes me puke. Its NO secret that we are being laugh at behind our back, so what can we do? only a violent revolution will change thing BUT do we have the heart to do it?

 

[Bellum_Romanum]

Heydrian might be who Philippine mainstream media look to in terms of geopolitics, but he is a moron. Unfortunately, figures who are more learned in geopolitics like Sasot are essentially gagged by MSM. The Philippines is essentially alienating itself from the rest of ASEAN by being an American vassal.

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They are viewed AS CHINESE-CCP PROPAGANDISTS with "DUBIOUS" academic credentials according to Rappler which was paid, started, in part by AN AMERICAN Citizen, Filipino person whom recently won the Peace (lol) prize.

Just look at those "beautiful graphics"showing your average Filipino the sophistication of Rappler's insight and utilization of digital marketing courtesy of THE NERVE.

I don't know how this media company manages to stay afloat and remain in business when most PINOYS take their news from social media apps/sites especially Facebook (Meta).

 

[Bellum_Romanum]

If you aren't a warmonger, then you do a good job acting like one. The fact is there will always be people who oppose you, and getting upset about it is foolish. Any response to provocations must be calculated carefully, not made in anger. Is there a war today because two fishermen died? Of course not. Their sacrifice is used intelligently, not recklessly, to slowly chip away at separatism. And that is the correct approach to use in the future, if any more unfortunate deaths should happen. It's not about money, it's about whether war serves the interests of the nation here and now. If war is inevitable, as I personally suspect, then it absolutely must start with the best possible timing to inflict the maximum possible damage to the enemy. Because the US will defend its hegemony at all costs, and China cannot afford to lose that war. There are no second chances in real life.

What cost China a hundred years of humiliation was hotheaded idiots like you trying to fight Western technology with their fists, thinking that righteousness would save them from bullets. It didn't.

Lol really? The Manchus/Qing dynasty grew COMPLACENT, CORRUPT, BLOATED AND REMAINED INDIFFERENCE to the people they were supposed to lead. They ABOHORRED SCIENCE and any meaningful study of Science which led to STUNTED growth in all forms of Strategic knowledge and awareness to what's happening externally.

And you couple that with HUBRIS and idiotic nonsense that nothing the barbarians have or can offer that could offer China then what you ended up having is OPIUM WAR, the confiscation of Chinese wealth, the unequal treaty, the confiscation of Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, Diayao islands, South China Sea issue..then eventually, its due disintegration. Followed by mayhem, destruction, disillusionment, giving the rise to warlordism etc...

Last time I checked/read, it wasn't China that initiated the war with Imperial Japan, Genocide Britain, created the issue and then finally dislodging Mongolia from China mainland by then Czarist Russia along with it the Russian city named Vladivostok, then losing port Arthur in the process.

Don't twist China's disintegration and solely attribute the failure to so-called "idiots" you so eloquently described the opinions I hold.

The geniuses like yourself kept signing treaties after another appeasing no one and angering everyone that mattered.

When America won WWII in the Pacific, the country was not prepared at ALL. The modernization caused by it's massive industrial capacity, absorption of Jewish-German intellectuals, CHINESE intellectuals brought them advances in military tech along with their vast natural resources provided them the ingredients to come out victorious.

I say that because there will NEVER BE A PERFECT PLACE, TIME to conduct WAR. What we can hope for is prepare, prepare, and prepare. Then expect for the worst, but hope for the best outcome. The enemies of China will not give it the proper breathing space, and will keep pushing the threshold until there's none to be pushed. Which is also why I understand AND AGREE that China must delay for as long, and as feasible within bounds and limitations from outsiders the conditions of when to take force.

 

[TK3600]

Lol really? The Manchus/Qing dynasty grew COMPLACENT, CORRUPT, BLOATED AND REMAINED INDIFFERENCE to the people they were supposed to lead. They ABOHORRED SCIENCE and any meaningful study of Science which led to STUNTED growth in all forms of Strategic knowledge and awareness to what's happening externally.

And you couple that with HUBRIS and idiotic nonsense that nothing the barbarians have or can offer that could offer China then what you ended up having is OPIUM WAR, the confiscation of Chinese wealth, the unequal treaty, the confiscation of Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, Diayao islands, South China Sea issue..then eventually, its due disintegration. Followed by mayhem, destruction, disillusionment, giving the rise to warlordism etc...

Last time I checked/read, it wasn't China that initiated the war with Imperial Japan, Genocide Britain, created the issue and then finally dislodging Mongolia from China mainland by then Czarist Russia along with it the Russian city named Vladivostok, then losing port Arthur in the process.

Don't twist China's disintegration and solely attribute the failure to so-called "idiots" you so eloquently described the opinions I hold.

The geniuses like yourself kept signing treaties after another appeasing no one and angering everyone that mattered.

When America won WWII in the Pacific, the country was not prepared at ALL. The modernization caused by it's massive industrial capacity, absorption of Jewish-German intellectuals, CHINESE intellectuals brought them advances in military tech along with their vast natural resources provided them the ingredients to come out victorious.

I say that because there will NEVER BE A PERFECT PLACE, TIME to conduct WAR. What we can hope for is prepare, prepare, and prepare. Then expect for the worst, but hope for the best outcome. The enemies of China will not give it the proper breathing space, and will keep pushing the threshold until there's none to be pushed. Which is also why I understand AND AGREE that China must delay for as long, and as feasible within bounds and limitations from outsiders the conditions of when to take force.

Well said. It is inconvenient for China to look for a war, but there is no reason to fear wars as well. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. If enemies provoke China, there is no reason not to push back short of starting a war directly. If China's enemy want a war they can start one today. No, China's enemies dislike war as much as China, even US. That is right, even US is afraid of war that it cannot fully control. Check out Yemen and Iran. American ships are under direct missile strike, both naval and merchant ship. What have they done? Ultimately Americans are rational in their own ways. What they believe in is sometimes factually false, but they do follow those belief and act under their best interests.

 

[Wrought]

Lol really? The Manchus/Qing dynasty grew COMPLACENT, CORRUPT, BLOATED AND REMAINED INDIFFERENCE to the people they were supposed to lead. They ABOHORRED SCIENCE and any meaningful study of Science which led to STUNTED growth in all forms of Strategic knowledge and awareness to what's happening externally.

And you couple that with HUBRIS and idiotic nonsense that nothing the barbarians have or can offer that could offer China then what you ended up having is OPIUM WAR, the confiscation of Chinese wealth, the unequal treaty, the confiscation of Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, Diayao islands, South China Sea issue..then eventually, its due disintegration. Followed by mayhem, destruction, disillusionment, giving the rise to warlordism etc...

Last time I checked/read, it wasn't China that initiated the war with Imperial Japan, Genocide Britain, created the issue and then finally dislodging Mongolia from China mainland by then Czarist Russia along with it the Russian city named Vladivostok, then losing port Arthur in the process.

Don't twist China's disintegration and solely attribute the failure to so-called "idiots" you so eloquently described the opinions I hold.

The geniuses like yourself kept signing treaties after another appeasing no one and angering everyone that mattered.

When America won WWII in the Pacific, the country was not prepared at ALL. The modernization caused by it's massive industrial capacity, absorption of Jewish-German intellectuals, CHINESE intellectuals brought them advances in military tech along with their vast natural resources provided them the ingredients to come out victorious.

I say that because there will NEVER BE A PERFECT PLACE, TIME to conduct WAR. What we can hope for is prepare, prepare, and prepare. Then expect for the worst, but hope for the best outcome. The enemies of China will not give it the proper breathing space, and will keep pushing the threshold until there's none to be pushed. Which is also why I understand AND AGREE that China must delay for as long, and as feasible within bounds and limitations from outsiders the conditions of when to take force.

You should read history more carefully. The Manchus had many flaws but they did not abhor science. They tried multiple times to adopt Western technology and modernize the country. What crippled them was corruption and infighting. If Li Hongzhang had been able to maintain better funding for the Northern Fleet and better relations with the Southern Fleet, the Jiawu war might have gone very differently. Internal weakness plus the hubris you described is what led to disaster. But all of that is beside the point, because that is government policy not popular opinion. The Yihetuan group was not started by the government, it was started by angry nationalists lashing out against foreigners. They may have been right to be angry, but they forced the nation to fight at the worst possible time when the army was still weak. And of course, they failed. The only difference between the idiots of then and the idiots of now is that you are lucky to be born into a strong nation instead of a weak one. What else can you do when you are weak except sign treaties? They signed treaties after losing wars, not before. The foolishness lies in fighting a doomed war in the first place. In any case, you and I are not in Zhongnanhai. We cannot control government policy. What we can control is our own actions, and ensure that they don't contribute to disaster. What we can do is not be idiots.

And America took massive casualties in winning WWII, casualties it could have avoided if its government and people were better prepared for war. Surely we should seek to learn from their mistakes? Surely it's better to emulate their strengths but not their weaknesses? Perfection is impossible, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. I'm glad you agree with that much.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

If you aren't a warmonger, then you do a good job acting like one. The fact is there will always be people who oppose you, and getting upset about it is foolish. Any response to provocations must be calculated carefully, not made in anger. Is there a war today because two fishermen died? Of course not. Their sacrifice is used intelligently, not recklessly, to slowly chip away at separatism. And that is the correct approach to use in the future, if any more unfortunate deaths should happen. It's not about money, it's about whether war serves the interests of the nation here and now. If war is inevitable, as I personally suspect, then it absolutely must start with the best possible timing to inflict the maximum possible damage to the enemy. Because the US will defend its hegemony at all costs, and China cannot afford to lose that war. There are no second chances in real life.

What cost China a hundred years of humiliation was hotheaded idiots like you trying to fight Western technology with their fists, thinking that righteousness would save them from bullets. It didn't.

No what cost China 100 years of humiliation was cowardice when Manchu troops ran away and were shot in the back during a rout instead of using their vast numbers advantage and fighting to the death with muskets that would've taken a high casualty ratio vs rifles but nonetheless were still guns.

Zulu with wooden spears, not even muskets, still savaged the British, decades later than the Qing, because they fought to the death.

There's no perfect time to go to war, you see this everywhere. What you can do is get ready, show resolve to fight to the death so you aren't seen as an easy target, and respond properly to escalations.

 

[Wrought]

No what cost China 100 years of humiliation was cowardice when Manchu troops ran away and were shot in the back during a rout instead of using their vast numbers advantage and fighting to the death with muskets that would've taken a high casualty ratio vs rifles but nonetheless were still guns.

Zulu with wooden spears, not even muskets, still savaged the British, decades later than the Qing, because they fought to the death.

There's no perfect time to go to war, you see this everywhere. What you can do is get ready, show resolve to fight to the death so you aren't seen as an easy target, and respond properly to escalations.

Courage and numbers only works on land, not at sea. Courage and numbers did not save the Beiyang Fleet, and it won't save the PLAN either. Technology is what matters and the same in the sky. The next victory will be won thanks to modernization, not courage and numbers.

As I said already, you'll never find the perfect time but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Courage and numbers only works on land, not at sea. Courage and numbers did not save the Beiyang Fleet, and it won't save the PLAN either. Technology is what matters and the same in the sky. The next victory will be won thanks to modernization, not courage and numbers.

As I said already, you'll never find the no perfect time but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

The PLAN doesn't need saving. Taiwan does.