China's SCS Strategy Thread

[Heresy]

Yes, America will be the world's dominant party for the rest of all time. Deal with it and cry in a pillow

@Deino, @siegecrossbow , @Bltizo

Is there a particular reason this sort of trolling from @SleepyStudent is being tolerated? I feel there have been warnings and infractions tossed out for much less, and yet this particular member seems to be allowed to spew garbage without any issue?

 

[Equation]

Yes, America will be the world's dominant party for the rest of all time. Deal with it and cry in a pillow

No it won't neither does India, so keep on crying on your high quality made in China pillow as you slept on the dirt floor.

 

[james smith esq]

Who got deleted?

 

[Equation]

Who got deleted?

Some China hater that can live with reality and facts.

 

[Gatekeeper]

Some China hater that can live with reality and facts.

You guys had all the fun whilst we're sleeping! Lol

 

[FireyCross]

If they do not want to do this, why are they doing it then?
They know they are supporting a hostile act against China.

No real choice. It's important to really understand the context in Europe right now. France is very keen to ditch the US "security umbrella" in Europe and push ahead with a EU defence alliance. Germany is more cautious, and wants the US to be there in the event that the Baltics or Ukraine go completely kablooey, at least until such time as more consensus has emerged about the shape and scope of a more structure EU defence alliance (some of this is in place such as the CEDP and numerous joint development projects such as the A400M, but it's not mature and Germany doesn't feel ready to rely on it just yet).

As such Germany really needs to keep the US engaged in Europe by demonstrating some degree of willingness to toe the line on Americas wider empire building ambitions in the western pacific, even though Germany herself has zero interest in them.

In that context, giving the Germans a welcome in Shanghai could be a good way demonstrating that China understands the German predicament, and is ready to engage with them once they feel able to drop the American "umbrella". Ideally make it part of a reciprocal visit. A PLAN ship passing through the Danish straits on a visit to Rostock could be a strong symbol of Sino-European friendship while demonstrating to the US that Europe is an independent security actor in her own right and has no need of an American "umbrella" anymore.

 

[Jono]

No real choice. It's important to really understand the context in Europe right now. France is very keen to ditch the US "security umbrella" in Europe and push ahead with a EU defence alliance. Germany is more cautious, and wants the US to be there in the event that the Baltics or Ukraine go completely kablooey, at least until such time as more consensus has emerged about the shape and scope of a more structure EU defence alliance (some of this is in place such as the CEDP and numerous joint development projects such as the A400M, but it's not mature and Germany doesn't feel ready to rely on it just yet).

As such Germany really needs to keep the US engaged in Europe by demonstrating some degree of willingness to toe the line on Americas wider empire building ambitions in the western pacific, even though Germany herself has zero interest in them.

In that context, giving the Germans a welcome in Shanghai could be a good way demonstrating that China understands the German predicament, and is ready to engage with them once they feel able to drop the American "umbrella". Ideally make it part of a reciprocal visit. A PLAN ship passing through the Danish straits on a visit to Rostock could be a strong symbol of Sino-European friendship while demonstrating to the US that Europe is an independent security actor in her own right and has no need of an American "umbrella" anymore.

your point is well taken, China may well understand Germany's predicament.
however, China may already be too angered and pissed off by US constant and persistent moves against China's interests world-wide and at SCS that it no longer wishes to play the nice guy and make accommodation anymore. Anybody who follows the US Navy's game plan at the SCS will be considered hostile, no middle ground or duplicity allowed.
In short, China is now sending out a strong " don't mess with me " signal to anyone and his dog to respect China's core interests, otherwise do expect a nasty response in return. A case in point is China's steamrolling Blinken and the State Department 3 times in the recent months. You can actually feel the palpable anger of China.

 

[solarz]

No real choice. It's important to really understand the context in Europe right now. France is very keen to ditch the US "security umbrella" in Europe and push ahead with a EU defence alliance. Germany is more cautious, and wants the US to be there in the event that the Baltics or Ukraine go completely kablooey, at least until such time as more consensus has emerged about the shape and scope of a more structure EU defence alliance (some of this is in place such as the CEDP and numerous joint development projects such as the A400M, but it's not mature and Germany doesn't feel ready to rely on it just yet).

As such Germany really needs to keep the US engaged in Europe by demonstrating some degree of willingness to toe the line on Americas wider empire building ambitions in the western pacific, even though Germany herself has zero interest in them.

In that context, giving the Germans a welcome in Shanghai could be a good way demonstrating that China understands the German predicament, and is ready to engage with them once they feel able to drop the American "umbrella". Ideally make it part of a reciprocal visit. A PLAN ship passing through the Danish straits on a visit to Rostock could be a strong symbol of Sino-European friendship while demonstrating to the US that Europe is an independent security actor in her own right and has no need of an American "umbrella" anymore.

At the end of the day, Germany's predicament is Germany's problem. Based on past history, there's little likelihood that a goodwill gesture from China will be reciprocated. Therefore, China's best course of action is to keep asserting its own national interests.

 

[weig2000]

your point is well taken, China may well understand Germany's predicament.
however, China may already be too angered and pissed off by US constant and persistent moves against China's interests world-wide and at SCS that it no longer wishes to play the nice guy and make accommodation anymore. Anybody who follows the US Navy's game plan at the SCS will be considered hostile, no middle ground or duplicity allowed.
In short, China is now sending out a strong " don't mess with me " signal to anyone and his dog to respect China's core interests, otherwise do expect a nasty response in return. A case in point is China's steamrolling Blinken and the State Department 3 times in the recent months. You can actually feel the palpable anger of China.

I believe China was asking Germany to clarify what's their purpose of the journey and visit. China doesn't want to be a friendly host while the other party was on a tour to demonstrate some kind of solidarity with the US against China.

To use an analogy, in the past some US carriers had sailed past Taiwan Strait to show off and then subsequently requested a stopover at Hong Kong for some R&R. China refused to approve the stop.

 

[FireyCross]

your point is well taken, China may well understand Germany's predicament.
however, China may already be too angered and pissed off by US constant and persistent moves against China's interests world-wide and at SCS that it no longer wishes to play the nice guy and make accommodation anymore. Anybody who follows the US Navy's game plan at the SCS will be considered hostile, no middle ground or duplicity allowed.
In short, China is now sending out a strong " don't mess with me " signal to anyone and his dog to respect China's core interests, otherwise do expect a nasty response in return. A case in point is China's steamrolling Blinken and the State Department 3 times in the recent months. You can actually feel the palpable anger of China.

I agree, this is the real problem. The "FONOPS" have basically destroyed any trust China has in any foreign naval ship in the SCS and tainted relations with many others who would be happy to work co-operatively if not for America's obsession with the SCS being their pond. I think it would benefit China in the long term to see beyond it and "woo" the Europeans with co-operative projects that specifically exclude the US - but it's hard as long as the Americans keep torpedoing European attempts to assert their own independent policy away from Washington's, uh, loving embrace. Hopefully this could be one positive outcome of brexit, as the American hold over Europe was often exercised through Britain being their main puppet at the European table. With the puppet gone, American influence has definitely taken a hit, and will likely continue to do so - something likely to be accelerated further as the Merkel era draws to a close.

From all the harrumphing in London, the reality is that China's SCS interests pose absolutely zero threat to Europe, and that's hardly a secret.