China's SCS Strategy Thread

[Blackstone]

Back on topic....

Six frigates? That's a task force right there...wonder if that's a typo or not. But good to see the most valuable island in the Spratlys getting a defensive upgrade.

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Taiwan definitely has a stake in what happens with China and Vietnam/Philippines. If Chine loses its control over the islands and rocks it claims, then Taiwan will too. I wonder if Taiwan will step up patrols around Itu Aba in a semi-coordinated fashion with Mainland forces.

 

[Jeff Head]

Back on topic....

Six frigates? That's a task force right there...wonder if that's a typo or not. But good to see the most valuable island in the Spratlys getting a defensive upgrade.

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Interesting.

First it said the material and machinery arrived on six vessels...then it said that was all escorted by six firgates. Does this mean twelve vessels went down altogether?

If so, that's a large task force.

Six frigates at once is an appreciable portion of Taiwan's active fleet.

They have eight Ching Kung (Perry), eight Chi Yang (Knox), and six Kang Ding (Lafayette) frigates. That's twenty-two total frigates.

You have to figure at any one time a third of those (7-8) are in maintenance. So of 14 sea worthy vessels, they send six on this mission. Pretty impressive for them.

 

[SteelBird]

Interesting.

First it said the material and machinery arrived on six vessels...then it said that was all escorted by six firgates. Does this mean twelve vessels went down altogether?

If so, that's a large task force.

Six frigates at once is an appreciable portion of Taiwan's active fleet.

They have eight Ching Kung (Perry), eight Chi Yang (Knox), and six Kang Ding (Lafayette) frigates. That's twenty-two total frigates.

You have to figure at any one time a third of those (7-8) are in maintenance. So of 14 sea worthy vessels, they send six on this mission. Pretty impressive for them.

I think the number of vessels might be more than twelves. Read below paragraph:

The machinery includes cranes and excavators. It was carried on several unpowered vessels propelled by tugboats.

Since the vessels which carry machinery are unpowered, there might be six or more tugboat to tow them. Adding the escort vessels, the number might jump to 18 or more. However, the former are unarmed civilian vessels.

 

[mr.bean]

Taiwan definitely has a stake in what happens with China and Vietnam/Philippines. If Chine loses its control over the islands and rocks it claims, then Taiwan will too. I wonder if Taiwan will step up patrols around Itu Aba in a semi-coordinated fashion with Mainland forces.

i'm impressed Taiwan is doing something, finally. i saw a pix on tw tv that has tw coast guard ship with navy ships escorting barges with construction equipment pulled by tug boats. they cant do any coordinated patrols with mainland forces because of American pressure. but they can do it themselves. they got a decent navy and coast guard it's time to use it.

 

[Blackstone]

It seems while Vietnam and The Philippines played PR cards with international journalists, China was busy changing facts in the water.

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China is conducting dredging operations at three reefs in the disputed Spratly islands in the South China Sea, according to data provided by IHS Maritime .

GPS tracking of a dredger using AISLive ship tracking data has confirmed Philippine claims that China has been reclaiming land at five locations since at least September 2013.

The dredging is part of major land reclamation projects undertaken by China on a number of the reefs and shoals it controls in the Spratlys. While such construction is in clear breach of a code of conduct signed by all claimants in the South China Sea territorial dispute, China has rejected any criticism of its activities by saying that the reefs are "indisputably" Chinese territory and so can be modified as Beijing sees fit.

The beat goes on, beat goes on
Drums keep pounding a rhythm to the brain
La de da de de, la de da de da...

 

[joshuatree]

Taiwan definitely has a stake in what happens with China and Vietnam/Philippines. If Chine loses its control over the islands and rocks it claims, then Taiwan will too. I wonder if Taiwan will step up patrols around Itu Aba in a semi-coordinated fashion with Mainland forces.

Actually a huge stake, the resources available to Taiping Island and it's EEZ can be of a tremendous boost to Taiwan. With a dock facility, I wonder if it's even feasible for Taiwan to turn it into a naval base, would help diversify their base locations so not everything is right across the strait.

It seems while Vietnam and The Philippines played PR cards with international journalists, China was busy changing facts in the water.

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A fairly objective report, I like the items reported below which gets overlooked by many media.

China has had a presence at many of these reefs since the late 1980s

It is important to note that China is not alone in conducting land reclamation of the South China Sea islands it controls. Since capturing Southwest Cay from the Philippines in 1975, Vietnam has substantially altered the island, adding a harbour and other land features in the past 10 years. Taiwan, which controls Itu Aba (Taiping) island, has built an airstrip and is currently upgrading its naval facilities. The Philippines has also announced plans to upgrade an airport and pier on Thitu (Pagasa) island, although resources remain a major issue for Manila.

Interesting.

First it said the material and machinery arrived on six vessels...then it said that was all escorted by six firgates. Does this mean twelve vessels went down altogether?

If so, that's a large task force.

Six frigates at once is an appreciable portion of Taiwan's active fleet.

They have eight Ching Kung (Perry), eight Chi Yang (Knox), and six Kang Ding (Lafayette) frigates. That's twenty-two total frigates.

You have to figure at any one time a third of those (7-8) are in maintenance. So of 14 sea worthy vessels, they send six on this mission. Pretty impressive for them.

I thought the same, a huge portion of their fleet. I'm thinking they must be concerned if Vietnam was going to engage them the way they engaged China at the oil rig. Also, I wonder if they chose to do this operation while all attention was diverted to the oil rig clashes.

 

[antiterror13]

Environmental degradation in China is one of the costs of Chinese lifestyle, and that simply isn't sustainable. CCP government is trying to address the problem, but given China is only about 1/3 of the way to CCP goals of finishing development and becoming a "rich country," it's not at all clear if they'll be successful.

we have heard that many times in the past, even as early as 1980s. In fact now, China is much richer and the GDP has increased over 30x more than and the environmental has started to improve immensely (perhaps since 2005) ... I know it's not enough .... but I believe it will be improved over time with new technologies, $$$ and full commitment from the Govt.

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For example, China' forest coverage has increased from merely 5% in 1970s to 23% in 2013 ... that's a huge huge achievement. Forested area in China is now stands at 1.82 Millions sq km, only the US (3 Millions sq km) Canada Brazil and Russia have more forested areas than China

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so, I am not convinced of your logic that "getting richer means worse for the environment" ... I believe it it is managed properly, actually the other way around

 

[Blackstone]

we have heard that many times in the past, even as early as 1980s. In fact now, China is much richer and the GDP has increased over 30x more than and the environmental has started to improve immensely (perhaps since 2005) ... I know it's not enough .... but I believe it will be improved over time with new technologies, $$$ and full commitment from the Govt.

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For example, China' forest coverage has increased from merely 5% in 1970s to 23% in 2013 ... that's a huge huge achievement. Forested area in China is now stands at 1.82 Millions sq km, only the US (3 Millions sq km) Canada Brazil and Russia have more forested areas than China

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so, I am not convinced of your logic that "getting richer means worse for the environment" ... I believe it it is managed properly, actually the other way around

Given China's management of its development vs. environment up till now, and considering the fact factions within the CCP are on opposite sides of the issue, I'm not as optimistic as you. But hey, China has accomplished unbelievable feats before, so I wouldn't be surprised if China pulls it off too.

 

[Blackstone]

VoA has a story on China moving a second oil rig closer to Vietnam. The report frames the event "provocative" and escalatory, even though it's not sure if the oil rig would violate Vietnamese waters. America's official mouthpiece should take care and not be played by Vietnamese propaganda, the way it played dolts like "Hanoi Jane" Fonda.

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China is sending a second oil rig near Vietnamese waters in an apparent escalation of its dispute with Hanoi over the exploitation of resources in the South China Sea.

China's Maritime Safety Administration says the rig, operated by the state-owned China National Offshore Oil Company, will arrive Friday south of the Chinese island of Hainan.

Though it is not clear if the oil platform will be located in waters claimed by Vietnam, the move will likely be seen by Hanoi as a provocation of a dispute that intensified last month.

The Global Times, a popular tabloid published by the Communist Party's official People's Daily, quoted Zhuang Guotu, director of the Center for Southeast Asian Studies at Xiamen University, as calling the rig deployment a “strategic move”.

“The increase in oil rigs will inevitably jab a sensitive nerve for Vietnam and the Philippines,” Zhuang said.

Beijing's May deployment of its biggest oil rig to an area close to the disputed Paracel Islands set off deadly anti-China protests in Vietnam and led to dangerous high-sea clashes.

China's moves have also rattled others that have competing territorial claims with China in the South China Sea, including the Philippines, Malaysia, Taiwan and Brunei.

Australia's foreign minister, Julie Bishop, told VOA that she hopes all countries involved in the disputes can reach a negotiated settlement and reduce tensions.

"We call on all parties to the dispute to de-escalate the tensions and to resolve such disputes amicably through peaceful negotiations. Australia does not take sides in specific disputes, but we call on parties to negotiate and to resolve the issues in accordance with international law. The countries of ASEAN are proposing a code of conduct with China and we support that policy decision," said Bishop.

China's decision to deploy a second rig comes after this week's high-level talks in Hanoi between Chinese and Vietnamese leaders failed to resolve the dispute.

In the talks, China's State Councilor and top diplomat Yang Jiechi told Vietnam to stop disturbing Chinese operations in the area and "hyping up" disputes over an island chain he called "China's inherent territory."

Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung, who met with Yang Wednesday, said China is violating international law. He called for the withdrawal of the Chinese rig, which is scheduled to remain in the area until mid-August.

Hanoi says Chinese ships accompanying the rig sank one of its vessels and damaged 24 others, as well as injured 12 members of its fisheries surveillance force. Beijing accuses Vietnamese ships of being the aggressors, saying they have rammed Chinese vessels 120 times since early May.

 

[A.Man]

China Sends 4 Oil Rigs To South China Sea Amid Tensions With Vietnam

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(Reuters) - China has sent four oil rigs into the South China Sea in a sign that Beijing is stepping up its exploration for oil and gas in the tense region, less than two months after it positioned a giant drilling platform in waters claimed by Vietnam.

Coordinates posted on the website of China's Maritime Safety Administration showed the Nanhai number 2 and 5 rigs had been deployed roughly between southern China and the Pratas islands, which are occupied by Taiwan. The Nanhai 4 rig was towed close to the Chinese coast.

The agency did not say who owns the rigs.

Earlier this week, it gave coordinates for a fourth rig, the Nanhai 9, which it said would be positioned just outside Vietnam's exclusive economic zone by Friday.

The announcement comes at a time when many countries in Asia, particularly Vietnam and the Philippines, are nervous at China's increasing assertiveness in the South China Sea, where sovereignty over countless islands and reefs is in dispute.

The Global Times, a popular tabloid published by the Communist Party's official People's Daily, quoted Zhuang Guotu, director of the Center for Southeast Asian Studies at Xiamen University, as calling the rig deployment a "strategic move".

"The increase in oil rigs will inevitably jab a sensitive nerve for Vietnam and the Philippines," Zhuang said.

China's state oil behemoth CNOOC Ltd has said it had four new projects scheduled to come on stream in the western and eastern South China Sea in the second half of 2014.

It was unclear if the four rigs were part of those projects. A CNOOC spokesman declined to comment, but the company has long said that in a bid to boost production it wanted to explore in deeper waters off China.

CNOOC has said it would increase by up to a third its annual capital spending for 2014 to almost $20 billion.

Anti-Chinese violence flared in Vietnam last month after a $1 billion deepwater rig owned by CNOOC Group, the parent of the listed unit, was parked 240 km (150 miles) off the coast of Vietnam.

Hanoi says the rig is in its 200-nautical mile exclusive economic zone and on its continental shelf. China has said the rig was operating completely within its waters.

China claims about 90 percent of the potentially energy-rich South China Sea. The Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan also have claims to parts of the waters.