China's SCS Strategy Thread

[Blackstone]

wow I haven't heard about that yet, but would be a great move if true. ''more action, less talk'' would be the motto for the Chinese.

China is essentially telling Vietnam "you started the recent SCS troubles, we didn't. And if you're going to create problems for us, then we'll use our wealth and power to establish a new status quo to our liking. No one can help you, not the UN, not the US, not Japan, and definitely not the Philippines. We're going to bend you over and make you wish you had left things alone. You will be steamrolled. You will like it."

Look for Philippines and Japan to get more Chinese attention next.

 

[xiabonan]

Environmental degradation in China is one of the costs of Chinese lifestyle, and that simply isn't sustainable. CCP government is trying to address the problem, but given China is only about 1/3 of the way to CCP goals of finishing development and becoming a "rich country," it's not at all clear if they'll be successful.

I think that we have different understanding of what lifestyle means...Majority of the pollution in China is not caused by ordinary people carrying out their daily activities, but rather are caused by rapid industrial development and the lack of enforcement of environmental laws.

By lifestyle I mean Asians, or Chinese, generally drive smaller cars, and on average have way less cars than Americans; long distance travel is usully done by trains especially now that we have a network of HSR. Cities have way more extensive subways/metros and many more cities are planning/already building theirs; people stay in smaller apartments instead of large houses in the suburbs in the US. People consume less meat and diry products in general and more vegetable.

In fact the above is almost true for all East Asian and SE Asian countries. Due to Asia's enormous population density in cities, on average we consume way less resources than Americans/Westerners.

 

[Blackstone]

I think that we have different understanding of what lifestyle means...Majority of the pollution in China is not caused by ordinary people carrying out their daily activities, but rather are caused by rapid industrial development and the lack of enforcement pf environmental laws.

Pollution is a fact, in spite of rime and reasons. It's true CCP is serious about addressing environmental problems, but the air is still dirty and water undrinkable. The Chinese people rightly hold CCP responsible.

By lifestyle I mean Asians, or Chinese, generally drive smaller cars, and on average have way less cars than Americans; long distance travel is usully done by trains especially now that we have a network of HSR. Cities have way more extensive subways/metros and many more cities are planning/already building theirs; people stay in smaller fapartments instead of large houses in the suburbs in the US. People consume less meat and diry products in general and more vegetable.

In fact the above is almost true for all East Asian and SE Asian countries. Due to Asia's enormous population density in cities, on average we consume way less resources than Americans/Westerners.

If Chinese citizens could drive nicer cars, they would. If they could have better food and living standards, they would. If they could have more wine, beer, and whiskey, they would. Chinese/Asians aren't any different than the rest of humanity and they would consume as much as possible, within ever changing cultural tastes. You say Chinese eat less meat? You're correct, but wait a generation or two and see what happens when most Chinese citizens reach middle-class.

 

[Equation]

Environmental degradation in China is one of the costs of Chinese lifestyle, and that simply isn't sustainable. CCP government is trying to address the problem, but given China is only about 1/3 of the way to CCP goals of finishing development and becoming a "rich country," it's not at all clear if they'll be successful.

It's NOT even at all clear if they won't succeed. The CCP are addressing the environmental problems meanwhile maintaining the momentum of development far better than any other country at this size and speed. Think of China's urban development like building the Great Wall, it takes massive men power, energy and sacrifice and in the end a finish product that's a historic world icon. Same can be said about the Egyptian pyramids as well. You want to be big go big or go home. All these "expert" pundits spreading their brand of how China "should do this and do that" does not even know the scope it takes to even bring out 500 million people out of poverty. It's just a bunch loud mouths trying to shame and scare China into doing things their way.

 

[Equation]

Reasonable people would say China's island reclamation projects indeed raise tensions. You could legitimately argue China didn't originate the latest rounds of sovereignty squabbles, which started around 2008-2009 time frame, but it is raising tensions. It definitely is.

China was only responding to Vietnam's and Philippines who were also building fortifications on disputed islands WAY BEFORE these "tensions" escalated. It's the western media just don't report enough about it as they only focus on China's actions on the SCS.

 

[solarz]

It's NOT even at all clear if they won't succeed. The CCP are addressing the environmental problems meanwhile maintaining the momentum of development far better than any other country at this size and speed. Think of China's urban development like building the Great Wall, it takes massive men power, energy and sacrifice and in the end a finish product that's a historic world icon. Same can be said about the Egyptian pyramids as well. You want to be big go big or go home. All these "expert" pundits spreading their brand of how China "should do this and do that" does not even know the scope it takes to even bring out 500 million people out of poverty. It's just a bunch loud mouths trying to shame and scare China into doing things their way.

What a lot of these "experts" fail to realize is that China's pollution is driven by its current role as the manufacturing center of the world. Since manufacturing is one of the most polluting activities in the economic cycle, it basically comes down to China shouldering the burden of most of the world's pollution.

What they also fail to recognize is that this situation is not going to last forever, nor is it meant to last forever. Every successful economy needs to go through the manufacturing phase, from UK to USA to Taiwan. When they talk about the "slowdown" of Chinese economy, or the movement of manufacturing jobs to poorer nations like Vietnam, they are again disconnected from the big picture. The above things are actually beneficial for China, as it curbs pollution growth and ultimately continues to raise the living standards of the Chinese people.

Is pollution a big problem in China right now? Absolutely, and it will remain a big problem for the foreseeable future. However, it is not a runaway problem as multiple factors are converging toward curbing pollution in the future. A lot of effort and hard work is still needed to successfully resolve this problem, but at least there is a clear strategy at work.

 

[Equation]

What a lot of these "experts" fail to realize is that China's pollution is driven by its current role as the manufacturing center of the world. Since manufacturing is one of the most polluting activities in the economic cycle, it basically comes down to China shouldering the burden of most of the world's pollution.

What they also fail to recognize is that this situation is not going to last forever, nor is it meant to last forever. Every successful economy needs to go through the manufacturing phase, from UK to USA to Taiwan. When they talk about the "slowdown" of Chinese economy, or the movement of manufacturing jobs to poorer nations like Vietnam, they are again disconnected from the big picture. The above things are actually beneficial for China, as it curbs pollution growth and ultimately continues to raise the living standards of the Chinese people.

Is pollution a big problem in China right now? Absolutely, and it will remain a big problem for the foreseeable future. However, it is not a runaway problem as multiple factors are converging toward curbing pollution in the future. A lot of effort and hard work is still needed to successfully resolve this problem, but at least there is a clear strategy at work.

True, but it's not as dramatic as these so called "experts" makes it out to be. They just don't want to see China dominating the role of economic growth and stability so therefore they have to come up with something negative to paint a bad picture of the CCP and China just to divert problems back at home in their own country.

 

[Air Force Brat]

True, but it's not as dramatic as these so called "experts" makes it out to be. They just don't want to see China dominating the role of economic growth and stability so therefore they have to come up with something negative to paint a bad picture of the CCP and China just to divert problems back at home in their own country.

Back on topic on this monolithic thread!

 

[PanAsian]

Compare to American lifestyle and Western lifestyle in general, I believe that most Asian people can confidently say they lead a very sustainable lifestyle as compared to Americans...

Be it Japanese, Korean, or Chinese; or Vietnamese, Filipinos, and Indians...

Just look at the daily average consumption of diary products, vegetables, meat, eggs, rice, you'll see that for most Asian people regardless of level of development, due to cultural, climatic, dietary differences and preferences, I dare say Asians indeed on average lead a more sustainable lifestyle.

It is a fact that the average Asian lifestyle consumes less resources than the average US lifestyle but that is not my point.

My point is as Asian living standards rise and the average Asian lifestyle consumes more resources, the supply of these resources to each Asian country needs to grow in order to sustain the living standard/lifestyle changes. The resource supply growth can come from territorial expansion/claim such as what is happening in the SCS, resource exploitation expansion which is also what is happening in the SCS, scientific advancements in exploitation expansion, consumption efficiency improvement, new technological discoveries, or any number of ways. And this is also a fact.

 

[joshuatree]

Back on topic....

Six frigates? That's a task force right there...wonder if that's a typo or not. But good to see the most valuable island in the Spratlys getting a defensive upgrade.

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Heavy machinery from Taiwan meant for use in building a pier has landed on Itu Aba Island (Taiping Island, 太平島), in a show of sovereignty over the largest of the Spratly Islands (Nansha Islands, 南沙群島) in the disputed South China Sea, Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) Legislator Lin Yu-fang (林郁方) said on Tuesday.

Lin said in a statement that a fleet of six ships took the equipment to the island, nearly 1,500km southwest of Taiwan proper’s southernmost point, on May 18.

The move came at the height of escalated tensions in the region after China and Vietnam became involved in a series of potentially explosive confrontations over the disputed waters earlier last month, leading to an eruption of anti-Chinese riots in Vietnam on May 13 that saw Taiwanese businesses in the Southeast Asian country hit by violence.

The arrival of the machinery means that plans to build a new pier on the Taiwan-controlled island have moved beyond the paperwork stage and work has officially commenced, the lawmaker said.

The pier is expected to be completed by the end of next year, Lin said, adding that it would allow naval frigates and coast guard cutters to dock on the island, enhancing Taiwan’s defensive capabilities in the South China Sea.
It will also allow docking for other ships, turning Taiping into a base for protecting deep-sea fishing boats, marine research vessels and resources exploration ships in the area, Lin said.

The machinery includes cranes and excavators. It was carried on several unpowered vessels propelled by tugboats.
To ensure the fleet’s safety, the Coast Guard Administration and the navy deployed six frigates and sent scores of special forces soldiers to accompany it on the journey, Lin said.

Taiping Island is the only landmass in the Spratly chain that has fresh water.

It has been administered by the government since the 1970s, but is also claimed by China, Vietnam and the Philippines.