China's SCS Strategy Thread

hullopilllw

Junior Member
Registered Member
Hi Jono,

The sin of the past is already haunting us, The legacy of the previous administration. Now with new cold war, we are now the centerpieces of American plan SCS action. That is why Duterte legacy is critical , it shows to the people that their is an alternative plan and it work. Rather than follow the past policy failure.

Easy, Philippines is not alone, you are a part of ASEAN group with a well defined regional policy. US is attempting to bypass the ASEAN framework and force arm each state into joining her cold war slowly one by one. To jel together or be divided and conquered is up to you.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Easy, Philippines is not alone, you are a part of ASEAN group with a well defined regional policy. US is attempting to bypass the ASEAN framework and force arm each state into joining her cold war slowly one by one. To jel together or be divided and conquered is up to you.
Hi hullopilllw,

ASEAN as is stand today is strong because of Duterte,The respect Duterte got from his ASEAN peers is widespread cause he is their voice, he can say things that ASEAN leaders cant say, the hypocrisy of the west, the US in particular. Now he is join by Mahathir the original , the teacher.

Now about the regional grouping only Singapore is in the US camp, Vietnam is not crazy enough to join, their system is a mirror copy of China, they are there as a hedging policy for economic gain as well as the other members.

The price is the Philippine, just look at the strategic real state we are in. with us in the American camp , they dont need ASEAN. That is why Japan with hard cash and Australia is courting us. The only obstacle is Duterte , he is a true nationalist and wont be swayed, He is lucky though because Trump is his friend and there is a genuine admiration between the two.

The situation now is that SWAMP establishment in Washington DC, is now moving in coordination of elite oligarch in my country for sowing the seed of a possible new pro American regime in the coming 2022 presidential election. The process now is to discredit Duterte handling of the pandemic and the coming economic hardship.
 

FireyCross

New Member
Registered Member
Really! I don't know about that, but even during the Korean war the Chinese could not be beaten down by much superior US army.
In fact it became the forgotten war as far as the US is concerned. The motivation, logistics, productive capacities certainty overwhelmingly in favor of China. Once China has taken over Taiwan, how would US troops be lifted into Taiwan in large numbers to fight land battle?

Korea was a very different war. Firstly it was land based, so China had no air or sealift problems, they could just send troops and materiel by land over the border. That makes a *huge* difference. The Americans had to air or sea lift in every single bullet. In Taiwan, both sides would have to do this, and the hard reality is that the US Navy still has a much larger sealift capability than China, and would also have the advantage of having local allies on the ground in Taiwan. The PLAN is rapidly improving but in sheer lift capacity are still a good way behind the Americans in scale, and that makes everything else harder. If the Americans go literally all-in, and throw everything short of nukes at Taiwan, China just won't be able to land enough troops and materiel quickly enough to maintain a viable force.

The other issue is experience, and there is no shortcut to it. Going from "no experience of full scale conflict for 70 years" to "Lets launch an amphibious assault against a full scale American force on their allied territory" in one go doesn't seem like a terribly wise strategy.

A full-on amphibious assault on Taiwan to confront a joint Taiwan-American force there would be one of the most complex and demanding war scenarios since WW2. America has a wealth of experience of doing it before, with equipment and personnel that have been tried and tested in the field. China has got completely new equipment is has never had to use in anger, with men and women who have no experience of full-scale conflict. This is another reason why I think a limited scale action on the outer islands would be more likely, as it would be a low-risk way for Chinese forces to be tested and perfected in real-world conditions, and apply lessons learned to future conflicts.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Korea was a very different war. Firstly it was land based, so China had no air or sealift problems, they could just send troops and materiel by land over the border. That makes a *huge* difference. The Americans had to air or sea lift in every single bullet.

Not being rude, but have you actually studied the Korean War in any detail? Or looked at the geography of Korea?

Korea is mountainous with few roads and total American air dominance. Logistics was a massive problem for the PVA. Had it been remotely as easy as you make it out to be, the PVA would have driven the US into the see in one continuous move from the start, rather than having to pause to wait for supplies and allowing the US and SK forces to dig in and be reinforced. OTOH, American supply lines were untouched throughout the war, meaning they could bring in men and material without any disruption.

In Taiwan, both sides would have to do this, and the hard reality is that the US Navy still has a much larger sealift capability than China, and would also have the advantage of having local allies on the ground in Taiwan. The PLAN is rapidly improving but in sheer lift capacity are still a good way behind the Americans in scale, and that makes everything else harder. If the Americans go literally all-in, and throw everything short of nukes at Taiwan, China just won't be able to land enough troops and materiel quickly enough to maintain a viable force.

See lift capabilities is meaningless if you cannot get your men ashore. When even USN carrier battle groups are putting themselves in extreme danger just trying to get within fighter range of the mainland, how the hell do you expect US marines to get close enough to land? And just how much attrition do you think the US is prepared to suffer to get boots on the ground in Taiwan?

This is the 21st century. Wars are no longer won through massed ground forces, but rather through air dominance. Only if the air war is an inconclusive draw would ground forces numbers start to count.

With air dominance, the PLA doesn’t need huge number of boots on the ground, especially not against Taiwan’s infamously poor conscript army.

That is why the PLA is unconcerned with plugging this apparent gap, and instead are focusing their amphibious assault investment in LPDs, LHDs and potentially even LHAs. All of which are massive overkill for a Taiwan scenario and would not be what the PLAN would be building if it feels like it does not have the sea lift capabilities already in place for a Taiwan scenario.

The other issue is experience, and there is no shortcut to it. Going from "no experience of full scale conflict for 70 years" to "Lets launch an amphibious assault against a full scale American force on their allied territory" in one go doesn't seem like a terribly wise strategy.

A full-on amphibious assault on Taiwan to confront a joint Taiwan-American force there would be one of the most complex and demanding war scenarios since WW2. America has a wealth of experience of doing it before, with equipment and personnel that have been tried and tested in the field. China has got completely new equipment is has never had to use in anger, with men and women who have no experience of full-scale conflict. This is another reason why I think a limited scale action on the outer islands would be more likely, as it would be a low-risk way for Chinese forces to be tested and perfected in real-world conditions, and apply lessons learned to future conflicts.

That’s the same kind of self serving reasoning that places America head and shoulders above everyone else in Pandemic preparedness.

America has fought plenty of wars, but it has not fight against a near-peer opponent who could contest every domain with a fair degree of competitiveness and even clear advantages in many key fields since WWII.

Even Korea and Vietnam are not comparable since there was no naval challenge while the air challenge was at best only a nascence factor with American control of the skies never seriously challenged, never mind threatened.

Indeed, America’s frequent low intensity wars might actually prove to be a major hindrance to the combat effectiveness of their forces against a near-pear adversary. For example, USN carrier pilots who return from operational tours require months of training once back home to re-hone their air combat skills, because when operationally deployed all they do is strike missions in danger free airspace in support of ground troops. So other skills become rusty through a lack of use and practice.

It’s the same with American infantry, who‘s combat experiences are tailored to counter insurgency, but what works flawlessly against insurgents could easily get you killed if you tried it on a near-peer opponent.

As such American combat experience is highly inflated and largely inapplicable in such a scenario.

At the end of the day, the deciding factors are going to be numbers and quality of fighters, strikers, missiles and detection means. The US has no clear advantage over China in any of those fields in a Taiwan scenario, and are in fact decidedly outmatched in most key areas.
 

Dante80

Junior Member
Registered Member
The US has no clear advantage over China in any of those fields in a Taiwan scenario,
They don't need to. They are not the ones tasked to perform an amphibious assault invasion of an over-defended island.
Any kind of current Taiwan invasion scenario leads to a bloodbath.
btw, this is the China SCS Strategy thread. We are grossly off-topic.
 
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CMFDan

New Member
Registered Member
Duterte's refusal to replace Duque clear sign of bias and self-evident of behind-the-scene control bye Duterte.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
They don't need to. They are not the ones tasked to perform an amphibious assault invasion of an over-defended island.
Any kind of current Taiwan invasion scenario leads to a bloodbath.

Real insightful analysis there. Is that based on anything other then the ‘perceived wisdom’ of ‘USA best China worst!’ :rolleyes:

The key to modern warfare is air dominance. With the kind of offensive firepower the PLA has, and close proximity to the Mainland, the ROCAF hasn’t really got a chance.

Not only are they thoroughly outnumbered and outclassed in the air, the PLA could pretty much stop them from even getting into the air in the first place with constant bombardment of all ROCAF air bases.

So, just how well do you think it will go for ROCA forces trying to hold static defences positions in the face of PLAAF air dominance?
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Duterte's refusal to replace Duque clear sign of bias and self-evident of behind-the-scene control bye Duterte.
HI CMFDan,

Firing people in the middle of a pandemic is not good and ideal, it will zap the morale of the medical frontliners. What he had done is to form a task forces to better coordinate different govt agency, there is a lot of bureaucratic red tape and infighting inside the DEPT OF HEALTH. With the rise in covid infection , now is not the time for finger pointing but to work together.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
Guys, here's an insightful piece from the former president of ROC, MA Ying Jeou. When he speak, we better listen. After all he should know a lot about Taiwan than we do.



Former Taiwan President: US Will Not Save Taiwan “It is not possible for the U.S. military to come at this time” 「美軍不可能來」

Former Taiwan President Ma Ying Jeou made remarks, claiming that if the People’s Liberation Army of China attacked Taiwan, “the first battle is the end”

Huang Yongxi

Aug 14 · 2 min read

Ma Ying Jeou, leader of Taiwan from 2008 to 2016 (Wiki Commons Image)

Former leader of Taiwan Ma Ying Jeou attended a meeting at the Rotary Club on August 10, 2020. During this meeting, Ma gave a speech on “Cross-Strait Relations and Taiwan’s Security” (兩岸關係與台灣安全). In this speech Ma made remarks that if China attacked Taiwan, China’s strategy is to let “the first battle be the last”(首戰即終戰) and that “it is impossible for the US military to come at this time” (目前美軍不可能來).

The situation between Taiwan and the Chinese Mainland has been deteriorating since 2016, when the incumbent leader of Taiwan, Tsai Ing Wen rejected the 1992 Consensus. Since then, the Chinese Mainland has been conducted numerous air and naval drills in the region and tensions between the two sides remain high.

Judging from Mr. Ma Ying-jeou’s statement, Ma believes that Taiwan has no military means to successfully resist an invasion by the Chinese People’s Liberation Army. As a result of his statements, Ma is currently is facing intense criticism from the Taiwan media. Several media outlets have blasted Ma, claiming that his remarks were defeatist and that he has demoralized the armed forces with his statements. However, if we examine the military situation on Taiwan closely, isn’t what Mr. Ma saying the truth? Since the ending of conscription in Taiwan, Taiwan’s armed forces have been unable to reach "); background-size: 1px 1px; background-position: 0px calc(1em + 1px);">recruitment goals. Some front line units are facing severe staffing shortages. Anti-air military exercises in the past have "); background-size: 1px 1px; background-position: 0px calc(1em + 1px);">failed. Gone are the glory days of Taiwan’s military. Ma Ying Jeou, being Taiwan’s commander in chief for eight years, surely understood the totality of the situation, and he reached a conclusion that resistance against the Chinese mainland through war is futile.

Perhaps Ma Ying-jeou hopes to use these so-called defeatist remarks to reconcile with the Chinese Mainland to prevent further deterioration of relations and to reduce the possibility of war. If that is the case, then Ma Ying Jeou has made the ultimate sacrifice to his personal reputation in an attempt to protect peace in the region.
 
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