Equation
Lieutenant General
Either way, it forces the US hand, by taking more actions therefore disclaiming them of the position of NOT taking anyone's side in regards to the SCS dispute.
China's SCS Strategy Thread
- Thread starter lilzz
- Start date
Either way, it forces the US hand, by taking more actions therefore disclaiming them of the position of NOT taking anyone's side in regards to the SCS dispute.
sometimes, offense it the best defense.
Blackstone
Brigadier
What's happening in the SCS is part of a struggle between US/allies to maintain American primacy as basis of the Asian security order, and China's aim to change it. In other words, great power geopolitics have returned from 1989 with gusto, and currently focused in the Asian maritime periphery. One could demonstrate US policy towards China shifted from cooperative to competitive in Bush43's administration, and from competitive to proto-adversarial in Obama's administration. The proof is Bush said on national TV that China was a "competitor," and Obama said US dealings in Asia was about who leads the region. If we take US leaders at face value, then US policy evolved from cooperative to hedging, then containment, and now we have encirclement.
Rational people must see the world as it really is and not how they want it to be, right or wrong has no bearing on that effort. From that perspective, the evidence is overwhelming US has indeed taken sides, and it will do whatever in its power to contain and even encircle China. On the other hand, China will do whatever is in its power to break containment or encirclement and rearrange the Asian security order.
Equation
Lieutenant General
Yeah but you still want to be on the right side of history. And that's where China is at right now, while US policy of containment or encirclement can never be right or justify for their actions on the SCS.
Yup.
Because China has 4x the population, China could easily aspire to an economy some 2x larger, even if it is stuck in the middle-income trap.
That translates into economic influence as the Asian/Global economy starts revolving around China, which means that China can't be contained.
And in time, that also translates into military primacy in the SCS and Western Pacific, with China therefore organising the security order.
Because China has 4x the population, China could easily aspire to an economy some 2x larger, even if it is stuck in the middle-income trap.
That translates into economic influence as the Asian/Global economy starts revolving around China, which means that China can't be contained.
And in time, that also translates into military primacy in the SCS and Western Pacific, with China therefore organising the security order.
There ya go, you three characters just agreed on something, you're all three wrong, but I bet it gives you the warm fuzzies??? LOL
When you come from a China centric viewpoint, that all sounds great?? When you look at it as the free world sees it??? you're all wet!
China could well be said to be encircling its neighbors from the Western perspective, it has certainly acted to increase tensions in every nation in Asia?
Its a simple enough issue that even brother Obama got this one right.
Love each one of you, but I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one? I'm not trying to be patronizing, I do respect your opinion, and I hate to disagree with you, but liberty is still worth fighting for.
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I would add that China has changed her policies and strategy's, the US is more than happy to be a friend and partner to China, and to serve alongside China as we do with our other partners. It's painfully obvious that President XI see's it differently, and is acting to aggressively assert China's dominance. I've only been watching this process for the last 55 years or so, it is a definite policy shift away from cooperation with the US, I would admit its very likely that BHO's poor attitude, and apparent disdain for China is very off-putting, I and most likely all US posters on the Sino Defense Forum are embarrassed by this whole administration.
I would hope that President Xi is wise enough to see that President Obama is allowing his disrespect to influence what had been a growing friendship between our two nations. I'm hoping that come November, we will have a President with a more favorable attitude toward China, and will go out of his way to reestablish the mutual respect and honor each of our respective concerns!
My apologies for my own rather arrogant attitude, I realized after thinking about this that if our perspectives were reversed, I might be right where you gents are. Respectfully Bax
In any regard, I regard all of my Chinese Bros on here with honor and respect, I realize I come off at times as arrogant, and I am giving you a genuine Air Force Brat, apology, bowing, and scraping, I truly value each of you, especially those who are my true friends. Your thoughtful and gracious PM's have etched a deep regard in my heart for your concerns and your safety. In fact as a Christian, I hope to share eternity with each of you, and I wish you every good and gracious blessing of our Lord Jesus this Easter Season, and pray that we and our families may share an eternity together in His Heavenly Kindom. bro bax
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You think I'm only looking at the Chinese point of view?
Have you lived and traveled around South East Asia or WestPac?
From their perspective they don't particularly like the prospect of future Chinese hegemony, but neither do they particularly like the current US hegemon (Philippines/Japan excluded).
Remember that the US is an imperialistic warmongering hegemon that has been constantly invading countries in the name of freedom, yet leaving those same liberated countries in chaos and worse off than before.
If we look at Laos, Thailand and Cambodia - they've all accepted that they have to take into account Chinese interests first - and are pretty happy to be proto-client states.
The attitude in Singapore, Malaysia, Brunei and Myanmar is that China is too big to ignore, and certainly too big to overtly challenge because of the consequences, which is much like how the US is regarded. Singapore in particular is preparing for the day when China displaces the US in Asia and they are not shy about saying this publicly. As a small wealthy trading one-party city-state surrounded by much larger Muslim neighbours, they don't have the luxury of deluding themselves on the balance of power and what that means for their foreign policy.
Then we have Indonesia focused on internal economic growth and the challenges of keeping the archipelago nation/empire together. And remember that Australia (supported by the US) liberated East Timor in the name of freedom not so long ago. From their perspective, it is Australia and the US that is the biggest threat to their country - and it is Indonesia that dominates ASEAN and SE Asia.
Vietnam and Korea are the closest to China and therefore the most vulnerable in terms of military and economic disparity, as they are geographically isolated. So they face the prospect of Finlandisation or possibly Canadisation/Mexicanisation.
Remember that China is not going to go around conquering the populations of other countries, and the sovereignty disputes relate to a bunch of uninhabited islands. So what threat does China actually pose to the liberty and sovereignty of other nations?
Have you lived and traveled around South East Asia or WestPac?
From their perspective they don't particularly like the prospect of future Chinese hegemony, but neither do they particularly like the current US hegemon (Philippines/Japan excluded).
Remember that the US is an imperialistic warmongering hegemon that has been constantly invading countries in the name of freedom, yet leaving those same liberated countries in chaos and worse off than before.
If we look at Laos, Thailand and Cambodia - they've all accepted that they have to take into account Chinese interests first - and are pretty happy to be proto-client states.
The attitude in Singapore, Malaysia, Brunei and Myanmar is that China is too big to ignore, and certainly too big to overtly challenge because of the consequences, which is much like how the US is regarded. Singapore in particular is preparing for the day when China displaces the US in Asia and they are not shy about saying this publicly. As a small wealthy trading one-party city-state surrounded by much larger Muslim neighbours, they don't have the luxury of deluding themselves on the balance of power and what that means for their foreign policy.
Then we have Indonesia focused on internal economic growth and the challenges of keeping the archipelago nation/empire together. And remember that Australia (supported by the US) liberated East Timor in the name of freedom not so long ago. From their perspective, it is Australia and the US that is the biggest threat to their country - and it is Indonesia that dominates ASEAN and SE Asia.
Vietnam and Korea are the closest to China and therefore the most vulnerable in terms of military and economic disparity, as they are geographically isolated. So they face the prospect of Finlandisation or possibly Canadisation/Mexicanisation.
Remember that China is not going to go around conquering the populations of other countries, and the sovereignty disputes relate to a bunch of uninhabited islands. So what threat does China actually pose to the liberty and sovereignty of other nations?
Come November, the next US President (likely Trump/Clinton) will have a much worse attitude towards China than Obama has.
Clinton herself has said that she doesn't want her grandchildren to live in a China-dominated world, but it's not really her decision, as it is what happens in China that will ultimately determine whether that happens or not.
The funny thing is that Trump's daughter and Clinton's daughter are like best friends - and it is Trump's grand-daughter that is the one who has a youtube video where she sings and sounds pretty fluent in Chinese.
Clinton herself has said that she doesn't want her grandchildren to live in a China-dominated world, but it's not really her decision, as it is what happens in China that will ultimately determine whether that happens or not.
The funny thing is that Trump's daughter and Clinton's daughter are like best friends - and it is Trump's grand-daughter that is the one who has a youtube video where she sings and sounds pretty fluent in Chinese.