China's Defense/Military Breaking News Thread

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Insignius

Junior Member
Read some old US strategic writings e.g. their proposed strategy of "off-shore control" or even inane bullshit ideas like "privateering Chinese merchant shipping". In all these scenarios, the US plans for a Chinese defeat is by China conceding their territorial claims and signing humiliating treaties whilst the CCP retaining control over China through internal suppression and propaganda that censors away any mention of Chinese defeats, so that China remains "stable" in a sense that it doesnt "default" and can still pay back the reparations.

Yes, such dumb ideas is what Washington tankies consider to be their desired result, because that's exactly the best outcome for the West: China's ambitions are kneecapped, either a pro-West CCP leadership/a leadership that is in fear of more US punishment comes to power and opens up the Chinese market for US multinationals to exploit, and of course the 1st island chain becomes a Chinese prison for all eternity.

Needless to say, the China of today, the China that has the dream of national rejuvenization, will never accept such an outcome and would rather become a Pariah like Russia after their Crimean episode for a few years than to turn into a semi-colonized shithole again. A
And this is actually the more likely outcome: China's market remains the biggest in the world, Germany, Japan and other economic powers desperately depend on the Chinese market for their own survival and cannot simply stop selling to China as they could with Russia. Furthermore, the Belt and Road Initiative as well as the alliance with Russia will mean that China's resource security and food security is ensured no matter what blockades the US will enact. China is basically a fortress nation, no matter how much the dogs outside bark and urinate against its walls.

All that's left is to talk about nuclear deterrence, really: China's arsenal of conventional weapons are strong enough to end US hegemony in Asia with ballistic missiles alone, and even if the US responds conventionally against Chinese mainland targets - these are easier to rebuild and harden due to them being embedded within the Chinese civil defense infrastructure and logistics than remote US bases on islands such as Guam and Okinawa that will simply be wiped out, period. But we all know that the US has always held the option of responding to conventional defeats with nuclear attacks. For this reason alone, China's effort should focus on building a very big nuclear arsenal to deter any US escalations. Having achieved that, I see absolutely no way for the US to achieve a lasting victory over Taiwan, no matter what sanctions and embargos they will pull off.

And also, please stop that "Responsible Greatpower" bullshit. Who ever believed that? According to the US propaganda that every country in the world seems to believe anyway, China is at the same time Nazi Germany, Soviet Union and Mordor.
You cant just appeal to Chinese morality or the image it tried to cultivate if you spent years demonizing and dehumanizing China before.

The most likely outcome is that China just says "You know what? How about I just fucking become everything you claim I am? How do you like that?" and the answer is: They wont like it, but they will suck it because PR and image is absolutely WORTHLESS in Great Power Politics. You either have a big stick or you get the big stick stuck into your behind and you'll have to say thank you to the one who did it to you.
 
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Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
Read some old US strategic writings e.g. their proposed strategy of "off-shore control" or even inane bullshit ideas like "privateering Chinese merchant shipping". In all these scenarios, the US plans for a Chinese defeat is by China conceding their territorial claims and signing humiliating treaties whilst the CCP retaining control over China through internal suppression and propaganda that censors away any mention of Chinese defeats, so that China remains "stable" in a sense that it doesnt "default" and can still pay back the reparations.

Yes, such dumb ideas is what Washington tankies consider to be their desired result, because that's exactly the best outcome for the West: China's ambitions are kneecapped, either a pro-West CCP leadership/a leadership that is in fear of more US punishment comes to power and opens up the Chinese market for US multinationals to exploit, and of course the 1st island chain becomes a Chinese prison for all eternity.

Needless to say, the China of today, the China that has the dream of national rejuvenization, will never accept such an outcome and would rather become a Pariah like Russia after their Crimean episode for a few years than to turn into a semi-colonized shithole again. A
And this is actually the more likely outcome: China's market remains the biggest in the world, Germany, Japan and other economic powers desperately depend on the Chinese market for their own survival and cannot simply stop selling to China as they could with Russia. Furthermore, the Belt and Road Initiative as well as the alliance with Russia will mean that China's resource security and food security is ensured no matter what blockades the US will enact. China is basically a fortress nation, no matter how much the dogs outside bark and urinate against its walls.

All that's left is to talk about nuclear deterrence, really: China's arsenal of conventional weapons are strong enough to end US hegemony in Asia with ballistic missiles alone, and even if the US responds conventionally against Chinese mainland targets - these are easier to rebuild and harden due to them being embedded within the Chinese civil defense infrastructure and logistics than remote US bases on islands such as Guam and Okinawa that will simply be wiped out, period. But we all know that the US has always held the option of responding to conventional defeats with nuclear attacks. For this reason alone, China's effort should focus on building a very big nuclear arsenal to deter any US escalations. Having achieved that, I see absolutely no way for the US to achieve a lasting victory over Taiwan, no matter what sanctions and embargos they will pull off.

And also, please stop that "Responsible Greatpower" bullshit. Who ever believed that? According to the US propaganda that every country in the world seems to believe anyway, China is at the same time Nazi Germany, Soviet Union and Mordor.
You cant just appeal to Chinese morality or the image it tried to cultivate if you spent years demonizing and dehumanizing China before.

The most likely outcome is that China just says "You know what? How about I just fucking become everything you claim I am? How do you like that?" and the answer is: They wont like it, but they will suck it because PR and image is absolutely WORTHLESS in Great Power Politics. You either have a big stick or you get the big stick stuck into your behind and you'll have to say thank you to the one who did it to you.
China is a responsible great power. Like every great power, China has made concerted efforts to bolster that image.

Taking part in building organizations and formulating policies that affect a lot of other countries etc are what China has been doing. The number of countries who consider China for various matters ( military procurement, trade deals, economic benefits, loans, infrastructure assistance, Science and technology etc) are only growing. China is often the go to name for many countries with considerable distrust of the west.

China has been a very responsible great power. It carry the burden and heft of that.
 

Insignius

Junior Member
10 000 nuclear warheads should be the goal.
How much money would that cost?
$100 billion ?

10k seems to be prudent, especially considering that China needs to deter not just the US but all of the West and all those nations are will opportunistically join in to the exploitation and carving up of China, like back during the 8 Nation Alliance. Preferably, every western capital needs to have at least a dozen or so hypersonic nukes planned for so that noone can just "cheaply" join a war on China and expect no consequences.

Funding wise, I bet modern nuclear devices are a lot cheaper to build and with mature and cheap solid fuel technologies, China can do that in under 100bn - especially considering we arent talking about 10k ICBMs, but 10k warheads with only a couple thousand missiles of all types.
 

Insignius

Junior Member
China is a responsible great power. Like every great power, China has made concerted efforts to bolster that image.

Taking part in building organizations and formulating policies that affect a lot of other countries etc are what China has been doing. The number of countries who consider China for various matters ( military procurement, trade deals, economic benefits, loans, infrastructure assistance, Science and technology etc) are only growing. China is often the go to name for many countries with considerable distrust of the west.

China has been a very responsible great power. It carry the burden and heft of that.

Those who already see China as a responsible great power e.g. African nations that benefit from BRI and Chinese protection/veto in the UN, will continue to see China as such even after a Taiwan War and western sanctions.

Those who hate China now or are on the fence because of heavy US meddling in their internal politics will continue to hate China.

No, sorry. China will not give up Taiwan just for PR reasons. China has closely read Machiavelli too much to fall for it. If you cannot be loved, and China will never be loved by those who consider themselves "the international community", then your only options is that you have to make sure that you are sufficiently feared by those same people. And look at what happens afterwards: A China that shows its colors wil suddenly make a lot more friends from nations that all have grievances towards US imperialism than a wishy-washy China that talks about win-win and sells out countries that have beef with the US for the sake of another load of US government bonds.
If anything, the existing alliances with Russia, Iran and recently Cuba, which has officially joined the BRI, will only strengthen, while more anti-US countries like Venezuela will finally find a reliable ally in China because it has become an irreconcilable enemy to the West.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
Those who already see China as a responsible great power e.g. African nations that benefit from BRI and Chinese protection/veto in the UN, will continue to see China as such even after a Taiwan War and western sanctions.

Those who hate China now or are on the fence because of heavy US meddling in their internal politics will continue to hate China.

No, sorry. China will not give up Taiwan just for PR reasons. China has closely read Machiavelli too much to fall for it. If you cannot be loved, and China will never be loved by those who consider themselves "the international community", then your only options is that you have to make sure that you are sufficiently feared by those same people. And look at what happens afterwards: A China that shows its colors wil suddenly make a lot more friends from nations that all have grievances towards US imperialism than a wishy-washy China that talks about win-win and sells out countries that have beef with the US for the sake of another load of US government bonds.
If anything, the existing alliances with Russia, Iran and recently Cuba, which has officially joined the BRI, will only strengthen, while more anti-US countries like Venezuela will finally find a reliable ally in China because it has become an irreconcilable enemy to the West.
Never Implied China ought to give up for the sake of good will or image. You may be misunderstanding.

What I'm talking about is the severe disruption to the world systems that a disgruntled and rogue Great power can bring.No one who thinks they'll walk out scot-free after fighting china, will be right.

All depends on China's willingness to escalate and prioritise.
Do I personally support it ? For the China of today, very likely I do, for an operation with minimal harm to every stakeholder. That depends on China's tactics and overall strategy.
 

lych470

Junior Member
Registered Member
I don't think it's in the interest of anyone to go overboard regarding the "China will defeat everyone" matter. But I've noticed that people usually see war in an one dimensional frame. A defeated China is a China gone rogue and insane. Even if under the remotest condition where China has to accept "defeat", the actions after that episode would be catastrophic for China domestically as well as internationally.

Domestically, political upheaval is going to be there. But since China is a great power, it can create a mess the likes of which will put the storied 'Samson Option' of Israel to shame. Ideally, for China's adversaries, they must create a condition for both domestic political upheaval in China as well as a Military defeat of China. A military defeat in itself, is not at all possible or desirable as people will rally hard during the trying times.

Somehow, they must link the military defeat to gross mismanagement ( very visible one at that) by the CCP of the PLA. But then if the war isn't over ( and China signing some document of concession of defeat) then the whole "responsible great power" tag will be torn away by China itself. A China signing a document of defeat is inconceivable in itself due to the sensitive past that China highlights to its children and citizen every other day.

What can China do as an "irresponsible" great power after that episode? A whole damn lot. In fact, I think it's scary for the world so interconnected through trade, Finance, data and resources. A great power is called so for a reason. No one will laugh a good laugh after a China fall.
Back to the 1960s - arming Maoists worldwide and fostering revolutions globally.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
White House Spokesperson said no change in policy.

Itsallsotiresome.jpg
First of all, this is the same dude who said with full confidence that the Afghanistan withdrawal would be smooth and the Taliban could not take over.

Secondly, the US government clearly has no direction as it's just one dotard after the other going off into unscripted statements without consulting anybody that people under them have to explain and smooth over.

Thirdly, I don't think anybody takes Biden seriously or feels that he's fit to be in charge. Tomorrow somebody will just go, "He meant Thailand. He gets the two confused a lot. Also, he doesn't remember what he said yesterday so we don't have to keep bringing it up to that confused dazed look of his every time someone tries to remind him of something, ok?"
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
First of all, this is the same dude who said with full confidence that the Afghanistan withdrawal would be smooth and the Taliban could not take over.

Secondly, the US government clearly has no direction as it's just one dotard after the other going off into unscripted statements without consulting anybody that people under them have to explain and smooth over.

Thirdly, I don't think anybody takes Biden seriously or feels that he's fit to be in charge. Tomorrow somebody will just go, "He meant Thailand. He gets the two confused a lot. Also, he doesn't remember what he said yesterday so we don't have to keep bringing it up to that confused dazed look of his every time someone tries to remind him of something, ok?"

Who is he defending Thailand from? Vietnam or Myanmar?
 
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