China won Turkey's missile defense competition

Oh I'm not disputing that HQ-9 must have definitely met Turkey's requirements... But we can't claim how it compared to patriot, aster, and S-300PMU2 on an absolute level.

Still, being on the same level as all those systems is no mean feat.

I think it's safe to say that a country like Turkey would not purchase HQ-9 if it did not score well in the testing phase. That's what I think is the most encouraging about this piece of news.

As for price, I think if you look at how much it cost China to produce other systems, coming in at a price of $3 billion vs $4 billion from competitors should be expected. China just produces things for cheaper cost. All it lacked up to now is comparable quality in the open competitions around the world.

Is there any Turkish report of the tests conducted to evaluate the contenders? Is it true that the HQ-9 hit all targets whereas the Patriots missed some?

Hendrik_2000 said:

... Politic doesn't even come into consideration. ...

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This is the most naive thing I have ever red on this subject. I don't want to offend you but that is certainly not how real world works.

The main concern for Erdogan is making a political point. In the same meeting government also cancelled the corvette bid for 6 MILGEM corvettes. They had given it a company (Koc holding) but cancelled it because a hotel owned by same company helped demonstrators in recent Istanbul protests. They let protesters hide in their hotel or something. And the next day, Erdogan said, publicly, they will be "punished".

Erdogan, to the extend of his can, is using these two bids for political posturing. It is so obvious if you know Turkish politics.

Technical side and cost is just apparent reasons given to general public.


Now, don't get offended, hq-9 might be the best performer in the tests but even so that is not the reason for its selection.

foxmulder said:

This is the most naive thing I have ever red on this subject. I don't want to offend you but that is certainly not how real world works.

The main concern for Erdogan is making a political point. In the same meeting government also cancelled the corvette bid for 6 MILGEM corvettes. They had given it a company (Koc holding) but cancelled it because a hotel owned by same company helped demonstrators in recent Istanbul protests. They let protesters hide in their hotel or something. An next they Erdogan said publicly, they will be "punished".

Erdogan, to the extend of his can, is using these two bids for political posturing. It is so obvious if you know Turkish politics.

Technical side and cost is just apparent reasons given to general public.


Now, don't get offended, hq-9 might be the best performer in the tests but even so that is not the reason for its selection.

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You dont do political points with 3-4 billion US dollar programs. Thats too much money for Turkey to waste in a single move. Not to mention that long-range SAM is importante to turkey.

I think that the main reason that the bid was choosen was because of price and ToT. However that also means that FD-2000 tech attains a certain threshold that make it worthy for turkey to pay a lot for it, even if it may not reach the performance of advanced versions of the S-300 or the patriot.

foxmulder said:

This is the most naive thing I have ever red on this subject. I don't want to offend you but that is certainly not how real world works.

Erdogan, to the extend of his can, is using these two bids for political posturing. It is so obvious if you know Turkish politics.
Technical side and cost is just apparent reasons given to general public.

Now, don't get offended, hq-9 might be the best performer in the tests but even so that is not the reason for its selection.

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In fact I do know quite a lot about Turkey. Years back when I work in industry I share the same office with Turkish engineer. He used to work for Turkish air force F5 if I am not wrong. We get along very well and I can't help notice his wife look like Chinese but not quite. Turn out she is Kazakh Chinese. Her family was involved in rebellion during the 50's in Xinjiang. Fearing reprisal they flee to Russia and then to Turkey.

Turkey give sanctuary and citizenship to any Turkic speaking refugee. Even though they look more European/middle eastern and think themselves as European. They still have common memory of Xinjiang as the origin of Turkic civilization and languages. And it pained them to see Uighur chaff under Chinese control. In 1995 when Erdogan was mayor of Istanbul He named a section of blue mosque as Jusuf Alptekin the leader of East Turkestan who died in Turkey in 1990 and give commemorative speech

In which he said" East Turkestan is not only home of the Turkic people but is also the cradle of Turkic history, civilization and culture to forget that would lead to the ignorance of our history, civilization and culture. The martyrs of East Turkestan is also our martyr!"


See there is no special love from Erdogan to China only in 2003 did he changed direction because of reality and in recognition of increasing Chinese role in world economy and politic. If I remember correctly he did criticize China during Uyghur uprising in China. in 2000's forget the year

Postscript my friend family did return to China . 1980 China gives amnesty of all participant in Kazakh rebellion and invite them to come home

kwaigonegin said:

Can I ask why Russia is always peddling their S300? Why not s400? I understand they like anyone else I suppose, they may want to keep their best and latest to themselves however it my be detrimental to their exports. SAMs by their very nature are defensive weapons so in that sense I think that type of restrictions can be more lax than offensive type weapon systems.

I mean heck aren't they developing the S500?

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There're plenty of reports of s400 being offered but s400 is really just another Su35, T50 etc where you hear a lot of it in the press mostly from the Russian sales department, but in reality little is known about their true effectiveness or even availability. As usual, Russia used export restriction as an excuse to save face from another lost sale.

I believe the European offering didn't even meet the Turkish requirements on paper. It was always just HQ9 vs Patriots.

Given the highly significant recent and ongoing events concerning Egypt and Syria, their implications for Turkey's ruling Islamist party, the roles played by the other bidders, and the leanings and aspirations of the Turkish military, it is unreasonable to say that politics factored very little into China winning this bid. Other factors in the bid which also favor China simply lends subtlety to the political message, the target audience will hear it loud and clear nonetheless.

t2contra said:

Is there any Turkish report of the tests conducted to evaluate the contenders? Is it true that the HQ-9 hit all targets whereas the Patriots missed some?

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I know, I have the exact same curiosity as well. I just like to see the official report results to see who came in 2nd, 3rd and 4th place.

kroko said:

You dont do political points with 3-4 billion US dollar programs. Thats too much money for Turkey to waste in a single move. Not to mention that long-range SAM is importante to turkey.

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I am afraid, it is the opposite. Bigger the project, bigger the effect of politics. And if the equipment meets the requirements that is enough.