China News Thread

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
I think American state assets should not be treated according to the Chinese legal system, instead, their trials should reflect the American system. If they work for USA, USA treatment is good enough for them.

China should seek establishment of its own Guantanamo bay, very suitable land for this exists in North Korea or Siberia. These facilities will be for exclusive use at giving American treatment to American agents, without breaking Chinese legal code.

The messaging must be: you don't get to come over to this country and take advantage of our lax police and sentencing to spread your home country agenda.
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
I think American state assets should not be treated according to the Chinese legal system, instead, their trials should reflect the American system. If they work for USA, USA treatment is good enough for them.

China should seek establishment of its own Guantanamo bay, very suitable land for this exists in North Korea or Siberia. These facilities will be for exclusive use at giving American treatment to American agents, without breaking Chinese legal code.
No need to set up such camps in North Korea or Siberia.

China has the vast, underpopulated Gobi Desert and Taklamakan Desert with extreme day-versus-night temperature gradients. Perfect for setting up Guantanamo-like prisons to house anyone caught threatening the safety and security of China and the Chinese people.
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
Interesting threads by Jiang Jiang, a Xinhua News Agency reporter, on China's recent Covid-19 measures, considerations and concerns:

This is the 1st thread.

Unroll thread:
Just in: Zhejiang Publicity, the WeChat account of the Publicity Department of the Party’s Zhejiang Provincial Committee, published an article on China's covid control titled "'People first' is not 'Covid control first'" “人民至上”不是“防疫至上”. A thread on its highlights:

As some netizens said: If the 1st year (of the epidemic) is panic, with some a little bit secretly delighted for being able to rest at home or a while, the 2nd year began to look confused, with people hoping that the epidemic quickly end. The 3rd year is about some complaints, (people wondering) when is the end. In addition, some places have recently used the name of epidemic prevention to "increase the level (of control)", abusing their power and making things difficult for the masses, resulting in epidemic prevention becoming out of shape, and in some cases, while not saying they were implementing restrictions & control but they were actually doing it, disregarding the interests of the masses & people's demands, & arbitrarily interrupting the normal production and living order. It damaged the image of the Party and the government & hurt the masses. There are even some people who take the opportunity to make money from the epidemic. Compared to the epidemic, these phenomena break people’s hearts. The ensuing people’s feelings of helplessness, tired & even anger are understandable.

Epidemic prevention & control is to prevent the virus, not to prevent people; there is no such thing as "epidemic prevention first" but "people first". No matter what kind of prevention & control measures are taken, they should be aimed at returning society to normal ASAP and getting life back on track as soon as possible. All options are "bridges" and "boats" to this goal, not simply to restrict people, regardless of the cost of blind brute force.

During this period, the World Cup in Qatar is in full swing. The crowd in audience didn’t wear masks, look at the scene of the revelry, everything seems to be no different from before the epidemic. Some people ask: "Many countries in the world now have everything as usual. They 'lie flat' and they survived. If they can 'let it go', why can't we?"

Let's look at the confirmed cases first. Up to now, there are 636 million new confirmed cases & over 6.6 million cumulative deaths worldwide, with 230,000 new confirmed cases and 428 deaths in a recent day. Among them, Japan, which has 126 million people, sees 98,000 new confirmed cases per day; South Korea has a population of more than 50 million people. It sees 47,000 new confirmed cases per day.

Second, regarding medical resources, this year China has 6.7 medical beds per 1,000 population, compared with 12.65 in South Korea, 12.63 in Japan and 7.82 in Germany in 2020. In 2020, China has 4.5 ICU beds per 100,000 people, Germany 28.2, the U.S. 21.6, France 16.4 and Japan 13.8, a global average of 10. Earlier this year, covid critically ill patients occupied 32.7% of the total ICU capacity in the U.S., and about 7 ICU beds per 100,000 people were crowded by covid critically ill patients, the number of which has exceeded the total number of ICU beds per 100,000 people in China. As of the end of 2021, China's population aged 60 & above reached 267 million, & the population of children exceeded 250 million, so the size of "the elderly & the children" group is huge.

According to the latest data from Singapore, the mortality rate of infection among the elderly aged 60-69, 70-79 and 80 years old and above with vaccine protection is 0.014%, 0.064% and 0.54% respectively; the mortality rate of infection among the elderly in the three age groups without vaccine protection is 0.19%, 0.29% and 2.5% respectively. And the three age groups of elderly people who have not completed vaccination in China are about 22.64 million, 16.16 million and 14 million respectively.

If we completely lift all the restrictions now, according to the estimated mortality rate of infection in Singapore, the number of deaths in our country will reach about 600,000 for the elderly over 60 years old only. China's social system, history and culture, values and ethics do not allow us to watch our fathers and grandfathers and children face death threats and simply give up. For example, in some Western countries, hundreds of people died in a single nursing home from an epidemic.

By understanding this, we can also understand our country's efforts to contain the epidemic. It is selective forgetfulness to envy the freedom and revelry of Western countries, but ignore the painful price they have paid. To talk about the "control" & "lifting restrictions" in isolation from China's national conditions and development reality is an empty proposition...If we compare the epidemic to a rough river, in order to reach the other side, some countries choose to go into the water bare-chested, and let some people become sacrificial lambs, while China chooses to ride out the storm together, using a big boat to give everyone a chance to survive. When the big boat is difficult and gradually leaning towards the other side of the river, if blindly envious of those who have landed on the other side of the river and no longer work together to row the boat and choose to risk jumping ship, the results of the many efforts we made before may be lost...

Recently, the prevention and control policy deviated, deformed, out of shape, and even some tragedies which should not happen happened in some places in the implementation of the "dynamic zero-covid" process due to the problem of understanding, capacity, methods, and even the interests behind the problem. The central government has set down the general policy of "dynamic zero-covid" and 20 measures to optimize prevention and control, but some localities have different interpretations, which greatly reduces the authority of the central policy.

In some places, in the name of epidemic prevention, people's livelihood and economy are taken lightly, and some even tacitly agree that "only the COVID-019 is a disease, other diseases are irrelevant" in the implementation of policies, distorting the concept of "life first".

Some of them have added levels of restrictions to epidemic prevention, without laws and rules in sight, and even come up with various tricks to "deal" with the masses, breaking people’s hearts. (more to add in another thread later)
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
C2nd thread by Jiang Jiang, continuing from the 1st thread by Jiang Jiang:

This is the 2nd thread.

Unroll thread:
Just in: 2nd thread on the highlights of the article on
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control policy released by Zhejiang Publicity, the WeChat account of the Publicity Department of the Party’s Zhejiang Provincial Committee. The article went viral later today on Chinese social media platforms.

"Why we can't lift all restrictions right away even though the death rate is low? Take vaccination for example, the booster vaccination rate for people over 80 years old in China is only 40%, the vaccination rate for children is not very high, and the overall immunization level of the whole population is not high either. Once there is a widespread infection, our medical resources may also face the risk of being instantly broken.

In some cases, it seems to be an innovative initiative, but in fact, it is “adding restrictions”; some local policy does not seem to be a "one-size-fits-all", but in fact, it is a concept of making a "one-size-fits-all". In the end, it is a result of the officials' awareness of seeking the truth from facts being too weak, the spirit of taking charge being too weak, and the ability to move with the times being too weak. The introduction of each decision & the introduction of each initiative is after careful study and judgment, and specifically in the implementation stage, a more people-oriented orientation working style should be formed ... The existence of these problems cannot be ignored, but easily attributing everything to the "dynamic zero-covid" policy is also not in line with reality.

To carry over the current epidemic prevention and control policy is more like a "balance of interests and harms". We not only have to consider the livelihood of the people, political accounts & economic accounts but also have to achieve the "optimal solution" in the balance of multiple objectives... Why is it that sometimes what should be said is not said, and the "right thing" is not well said and not understood? Some party members and cadres are weak in the spotlight to carry out their work, either avoiding and dodging the concerns of the masses, or some press conferences said a lot, but it is not what the masses want to hear, or the normal people can understand. We have to expose those who shirk their responsibility. We have to remove those officials who cannot introduce the policy well from the press conferences, and invite those who can speak accurately about the policy to introduce the policy to give people more certainty, and the authority of the professional voice can be established.

The construction of the "big ship" of epidemic prevention and control is ultimately to carry more than 1.4 billion people to the other side smoothly. When the ship reaches turbulence, it needs to be united. We have to believe that we will not keep drifting; as long as we are united, steady pace and rhythm, we will be able to get off the boat safely in the near future." (end of highlights)

Source:
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Jiang Jiang's thoughts on the matter:
Some thoughts: The piece focused on the expression of empathy with the public under epidemic prevention & control (which might explain why it enjoys some popularity now), explained the logic behind the current "Dynamic Zero-Covid" policy and listed many wrong actions of the local governments in implementing the policy. No signal can be seen from the article that China will change the overall policy soon, though the article mentioned the "iteration" and "optimization" of the policies.

To me, it is a message to the public that the central government is aware of the various problems including "some interest groups 利益群体" behind the epidemic (though it was published by a local account), but it is not realistic to change the policy entirely now due to the reasons I highlighted in the last thread.

On the same day, China's National Health Commission held a press conference and answered some questions regarding the current policy. A spokesperson said that closed-off management for the sake of epidemic control should be imposed and lifted as quickly as possible to reduce the inconvenience caused by the COVID-19 epidemic to the people.

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Full-text records of the press conference:
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Andy1974

Senior Member
Registered Member
C2nd thread by Jiang Jiang, continuing from the 1st thread by Jiang Jiang:

This is the 2nd thread.

Unroll thread:


Source:
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Jiang Jiang's thoughts on the matter:


View attachment 102683
Full-text records of the press conference:
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I wish they would just come out and say..

1. We are building more ICU beds, ready in 6 months.
2. We are making and distributing therapeutics, ready soon.
3. New vaccines, and types, almost ready.
4. Country wide booster drive coming up.
 

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
I wish they would just come out and say..

1. We are building more ICU beds, ready in 6 months.
2. We are making and distributing therapeutics, ready soon.
3. New vaccines, and types, almost ready.
4. Country wide booster drive coming up.
I'm sure they are working on something. The current announcements are to calm the public first. The Chinese government are serious people, they don't make important announcements on a whim just to score political points. They consider the interests of all Chinese citizens. Not a just a number of urban youths craving freedom. That is the first message they want the Chinese people to hear.

In other democracies, the govt usually caves into the noisiest interest groups. The results is nothing short of disastrous. Thousands, to more than a million of lives lost. Family, friends, and names of the dead, reduced to only statistics. There are always a number of inconsiderate sociopaths who just don't care about the wellbeing of the society as a whole. These people tend to be very noisy in many societies, including Chinese society, because they are shameless people. Unfortunately in a typical liberal democracy, these people are allowed to become popular. And when a popular movement appears, democratic politicians have little choice, but to listen to the herded masses; or risk losing power.

China will open up one day. But it is not up to us foreigners or unqualified people to dictate to them how and when to do so. Many of us in the democratic world are not great examples ourselves. We have lockdowns, more barbaric than the ones in China. Yet, many of our democracies practiced selective lockdowns. The poor and middle classes are locked down hard. But the upper class, VIPs and politicians are free to move around and party. When our lockdowns failed for obvious reasons, we say that lockdowns don't work and just give up. Then we say that its pointless for China to lockdown further. This is stupidity at its best. Imagine if I suck at basketball because I didn't have the discipline to train hard. But then I tell the best basketball player in my school and my friends that training doesn't work. Who is the real loser here?

China can afford to take its time to open up. Their citizens may be frustrated, but they are still not dealing with massive covid deaths, soaring inflation, energy shortages, disintegrating economy, political mayhem, or war.
 

duncanidaho

Junior Member
I wish they would just come out and say..

1. We are building more ICU beds, ready in 6 months.

I think building up more ICU beds are not the problem. The biggest problem are the nursing staff, you need more than two to three years to train them, and you also need the training facility to train them. So bulding up the training centers and train an enough amount of nurses for the ICU-stations will take at least 4-5 years.
 

Franklin

Captain
I think building up more ICU beds are not the problem. The biggest problem are the nursing staff, you need more than two to three years to train them, and you also need the training facility to train them. So bulding up the training centers and train an enough amount of nurses for the ICU-stations will take at least 4-5 years.
China can always build more nursing robots to staff the wards. And with Omicron there are fewer patients with severe diseases.

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ironborn

Junior Member
Registered Member
I think American state assets should not be treated according to the Chinese legal system, instead, their trials should reflect the American system. If they work for USA, USA treatment is good enough for them.

China should seek establishment of its own Guantanamo bay, very suitable land for this exists in North Korea or Siberia. These facilities will be for exclusive use at giving American treatment to American agents, without breaking Chinese legal code.

The messaging must be: you don't get to come over to this country and take advantage of our lax police and sentencing to spread your home country agenda.
Just send them to Qinghai or Gansu, dust bowls to plant trees, be useful to the rest of the country for once.
 
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