China need a new geopolitical Doctrine ?

MortyandRick said:

That's because japan gave in to all US demands then their economy burst and they had the 'lost decade'. If they pushed back against US wishes or didn't give in to US depends, I'm sure the US would have progressed to limiting visas for Japanese students and other things. That's a guarantee.

Click to expand...

Of course you "guarantee" a completely unproveable assertion. Actually even during the height of the Japan fear in 1988, a Republican president apologized to Japanese Americans for internment during WWII and actually gave them reparations. Japan was allowed to make major acquisitions like the Rockefeller Center, Pebble Beach Ca., and Columbia Pictures. And Japan was invited to be part of the US led coalition against Saddam Hussein in 1991.

Generally the notion that the US policy towards China would be the same no matter what is convenient for confrontation advocates since it justifies any aggressive action by China against the US no matter what, and undercuts any argument to restore relations. After all, if the US policy is the same no matter what, then there is no basis for trying to improve relations. Then relations go into a tailspin, more anger & fighting, etc. It's a spiraling cycle and a self fulfilling prophecy.

Ironically I see the exact same argument trotted out on the US side of the debate, where US hawks argue "no matter what we do China will be hostile against us, therefore we should do the worst against China."

The reality is that neither country is completely homogeneous, there are debates going on in each country as to how to approach the other one, and relations can be better or worse depending on mutual actions. China has friends in the US just like the US has friends in China, only during this time they are quieter due to the escalating tensions. But if each simply assumes the worst from the outset it is a guarantee of a bad outcome.

gadgetcool5 said:

Of course you "guarantee" a completely unproveable assertion.

Click to expand...

This is the central theme to everything you say... this or something that's supposed to be proven 80 years later.

I would like to remind everyone what happened between China and India only a few weeks ago. Both sides were yelling at each other and look what has happened. We should calm down and stay clear of all the emotional stuff. In my mind, this is a chess match at the highest level, where masters sitting across a chess board carefully calculate each and every of their moves, and moving their chess pieces. Some pieces have been designed to be taken by their opponent, and/or exchanged for future advantages. We are still far away from checkmate. Let's sit back and watch this great game unfolding.

Don't believe the US is okay with having no relations with China. US acts are design to pressure China to surrender not isolate. They might end up with that in their hands because of their arrogance thinking they have leverage but in the end they have to be there in China in order to influence. And don't be arrogant to think this is about how important Chinese are to them. This is solely about their need to be control of literally everything. That's why they bother with North Korea. They can't stand that kind of defiance to their will. They laugh at North Korea for being one of the most backward countries in the world yet they have to be involved in North Korea anyway. Why is this? Mostly under the guise of religion. If their God created the universe, everything has to have an acknowledgement to their God. That's a bunch of nonsense in itself because what it really comes down to is the same reasons why they want everyone to embrace their values. Why do they need everyone to embrace what they value? Is it because what they have is so good and they want to share with everyone? No! It's because they control what is of value and in order for you to get it, you have to do what they want and say in exchange for it. If you embrace their values, you're trapped and you will forever have to do what they want because everything is finite and there's always not enough to give to everyone what they want. You have to be in competition with other people who want the same thing and you have to go to the extreme to prove your worthiness of getting what you want.

In my years of activism the one thing that is a problem with Asians is apathy. The only time when you see a passion in Asians is when they when they hate other Asians like what you see in Hong Kong when they want to drop their identity of being Chinese in order to hate and look down at anyone Chinese. A lot of people call it an inferiority complex or self-hatred. You see it in nationalism in Asia where countries hate other countries. What do they all have in common? They're all trying to prove that they're not like the other. Who are they trying to prove it to? It's a big battle to claim who's closer to being "Western". In this case, they're not born to it so it will be harder to get what they value which means they can only act in the extreme against everything they see is not Western as an alternative to be the closest thing to being it. And that's why these people are always the most hateful and most racist in their actions. For Hong Kongers, the more they want to see Chinese die as in calling for the West to go to war with China, it ultimately proves in their own minds they ain't Chinese.

If they were out to share what is so great and good from their culture, why would they withhold what people want where people have so much hate for not getting it? You have Americans taking credit for China's success. If they think they can take credit, then they are responsible for why and what countries are poor in the world. Would a people of such an altruistic nature choose to make people poor? Do you see everyone wanting what is valued joining together to equally distribute what is valued? No, they separate and hate each other in competition to get what is valued for themselves alone. All because those who control what is valued are denying it to those that want it. All this hate and violence and guess who's not affected because they control what is valued? Anyone who doesn't embrace their values, aren't doing their bidding.

BMEWS said:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The deepening enmity of US-China strategic rivalry is eroding core CCP assumptions that competition would remain bounded – by nuclear deterrence, deep economic integration, shared stewardship of financial stability and cooperation on global challenges such as pandemics – and may be amplifying Beijing’s assessment that the US is on a trajectory to pursue overthrow of the CCP as a strategic goal.

Click to expand...

Pompeo's rhetoric... Given the dysfunction of the US government and its political system rife with divisions satteredness, heavy pursuit of and strength of special interest groups, and the crisis of class and racial divisions within US Society, the United States does not have the legitimacy to question China's own system of governance. Democracy and freedom are overrated. They do not on their own lead to good governance and a good sense of responsibility and civic duty and adequate collectiveness within society. The difference in organizational capability and competence of the Chinese and American states were clearly shown in their responses to the Coronavirus. The US was shown as demonstrably incompetent, and even though this does have a significant extent to do with the President in power, the system of government and the attitudes of people in society exacerbated the situation. Most Chinese people will probably want Xi Jinping to relax a bit on his strictness, but they will definitely not want to adopt the US system of government.

Weaasel said:

Pompeo's rhetoric... Given the dysfunction of the US government and its political system rife with divisions satteredness, heavy pursuit of and strength of special interest groups, and the crisis of class and racial divisions within US Society, the United States does not have the legitimacy to question China's own system of governance. Democracy and freedom are overrated. They do not on their own lead to good governance and a good sense of responsibility and civic duty and adequate collectiveness within society. The difference in organizational capability and competence of the Chinese and American states were clearly shown in their responses to the Coronavirus. The US was shown as demonstrably incompetent, and even though this does have a significant extent to do with the President in power, the system of government and the attitudes of people in society exacerbated the situation. Most Chinese people will probably want Xi Jinping to relax a bit on his strictness, but they will definitely not want to adopt the US system of government.

Click to expand...

I think many people can see that the US mishandled the Coronavirus and there is great dissatisfaction with Trump. I am not saying China should adopt the US political system. China however should move past the notion of "no interference with domestic affairs of another nation" and start standing up for universal values. If it does it can attract so much goodwill because there are a lot of people out there unhappy with the US and looking for an alternative. They do not want a Han nationalist authoritarian alternative, but if China can really present a more friendly face to the world by settling disputes with its neighbors, dropping wolf warrior diplomacy, and being a little less restrictive at home, it can do a lot of good.

gadgetcool5 said:

China however should move past the notion of "no interference with domestic affairs of another nation" and start standing up for universal values.

Click to expand...

There are no universal values. What you think is right someone else may think is wrong. Every country has the right to be run in its own way and not be told by foreign powers what to do.

gadgetcool5 said:

If it does it can attract so much goodwill because there are a lot of people out there unhappy with the US and looking for an alternative.

Click to expand...

Goodwill from where? The countries that China is intervening in? LOL This is following America's footsteps that earned it the hate it deserves.

gadgetcool5 said:

They do not want a Han nationalist authoritarian alternative, but if China can really present a more friendly face to the world by settling disputes with its neighbors, dropping wolf warrior diplomacy, and being a little less restrictive at home, it can do a lot of good.

Click to expand...

Doesn't make any sense. How do you intervene in a friendly way without being authoritarian? You realize that the world's problems are very difficult to solve and generally the ones that are in stalemate are there because they're at the point where only force can resolve the dispute in favor of one side, right? You cannot please everybody, or do you think these lasting global issues can all be solved by elementary school-style sit-downs?

You have a ridiculous idea rooted in totally absent understanding of the issues around the world. Your statement contradicts itself and is completely incoherent.

manqiangrexue said:

There are no universal values. What you think is right someone else may think is wrong. Every country has the right to be run in its own way and not be told by foreign powers what to do.

Goodwill from where? The countries that China is intervening in? LOL This is following America's footsteps that earned it the hate it deserves.

Doesn't make any sense. How do you intervene in a friendly way without being authoritarian? You realize that the world's problems are very difficult to solve and generally the ones that are in stalemate are there because they're at the point where only force can resolve the dispute in favor of one side, right? You cannot please everybody, or do you think these lasting global issues can all be solved by elementary school-style sit-downs?

You have a ridiculous idea rooted in totally absent understanding of the issues around the world. Your statement contradicts itself and is completely incoherent.

Click to expand...

You contradict yourself while accusing me of contradicting myself. No offense, but your mentality is why China is so bad at PR and soft power. The entire basis of those things is cross-national affinities and values.

gadgetcool5 said:

You contradict yourself while accusing me of contradicting myself.

Click to expand...

I pointed out your contradiction. Where is the contradiction that you accuse me of?

gadgetcool5 said:

No offense, but your mentality is why China is so bad at PR and soft power.

Click to expand...

As I told escobar, repeating defeated points doesn't make them true. Your mentality is why you're so bad at debate; it's not comparable to any thought process usable by any nation, much less a rising superpower.

gadgetcool5 said:

The entire basis of those things is cross-national affinities and values.

Click to expand...

What does that even mean? LOL Incoherent like the rest of your posts.

manqiangrexue said:

I pointed out your contradiction. Where is the contradiction that you accuse me of?

As I told escobar, repeating defeated points doesn't make them true. Your mentality is why you're so bad at debate; it's not comparable to any thought process usable by any nation, much less a rising superpower.

What does that even mean? LOL Incoherent like the rest of your posts.

Click to expand...

Adiru's mentality is like the mentality of religious people. He's got a few fundamental tenets that he will never question regardless how often you point out they are nonsensical. Arguing with him is like an atheist trying to argue with a religious person that God doesn't exist.