China need a new geopolitical Doctrine ?

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gadgetcool5

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This is completely incorrect.

The dollar is by far the world's reserve currency, and the second currency is the Euro. When push comes to shove, as we saw with Huawei, Hong Kong, ASML, etc. Europe will side with the US. European companies are too integrated with the US to do otherwise. Europe maintains the NATO alliance with the US. The two of them together are more than x2 the size of China's economy. Additionally, Japan, Korea and Taiwan side with the US. Additionally, India and Australia side with the US. All in all, the alliance encircling China is far more technologically advanced, has a far larger economy, and far larger population. That is not even counting SEA nations like Vietnam which have disputes in the SCS against China. Even more countries against China. Against this, China can only muster Pakistan, Iran, North Korea... a collection of nobodies.

Russia is playing both sides selling weapons to India and China at the same time.

China is smaller, weaker, less advanced, less populous, and poorer than the anti-China alliance. Some people on here are literally advocating going to war against all these countries and committing suicide. That would do more damage to China than Mike Pompeo could even dream of in his wildest dreams.

I know this is a defense forum but seeking war is not good.
 
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BMEWS

Junior Member
Registered Member
gadgetcool5 said:
This is completely incorrect.

The dollar is by far the world's reserve currency, and the second currency is the Euro. When push comes to shove, as we saw with Huawei, Hong Kong, ASML, etc. Europe will side with the US. European companies are too integrated with the US to do otherwise. Europe maintains the NATO alliance with the US. The two of them together are more than x2 the size of China's economy. Additionally, Japan, Korea and Taiwan side with the US. Additionally, India and Australia side with the US. All in all, the alliance encircling China is far more technologically advanced, has a far larger economy, and far larger population. That is not even counting SEA nations like Vietnam which have disputes in the SCS against China. Even more countries against China. Against this, China can only muster Pakistan, Iran, North Korea... a collection of nobodies.

Russia is playing both sides selling weapons to India and China at the same time.

China is smaller, weaker, less advanced, less populous, and poorer than the anti-China alliance. Some people on here are literally advocating going to war against all these countries and committing suicide. That would do more damage to China than Mike Pompeo could even dream of in his wildest dreams.

I know this is a defense forum but seeking war is not good.
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I don't speak for others but I'm not advocating China go to war against anybody, but its clear the US is willing to go to war against China... or even a "final solution"...

Chinese needs to shift its priorities and increase its military spending and also perhaps most importantly, drastically increase its size of nuclear deterrence.
 
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gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member
BMEWS said:
I don't speak for others but I'm not advocating China go to war against anybody, but its clear the US is willing to go to war against China... or even a "final solution"...

Chinese needs to shift its priorities and increase its military spending and also perhaps most importantly, drastically increase its size of nuclear deterrence.
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Cutting off all contact and shutting down all consulates except for one is not going to help. Sure, retaliate against US moves and increase its nuclear deterrence yes, but there's no reason to raise tensions needlessly.

The US perspective really is that it just wants China to be more of a responsible stakeholder and slightly liberalize. I know it's hard to believe but it's true. In every speech they say it, and if you listen to what average Americans say, that's what they believe too.
 
hullopilllw

hullopilllw

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Registered Member
gadgetcool5 said:
Cutting off all contact and shutting down all consulates except for one is not going to help. Sure, retaliate against US moves and increase its nuclear deterrence yes, but there's no reason to raise tensions needlessly.

The US perspective really is that it just wants China to be more of a responsible stakeholder and slightly liberalize. I know it's hard to believe but it's true. In every speech they say it, and if you listen to what average Americans say, that's what they believe too.
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Problem is China is already a far more responsible stakeholder than US is. She dont go around bombing and sanctioning 3rd world nations in ruins. Nor using subvertion efforts to divide nations, topple regimes that have act contary to her interest. What more do you expect ?
 
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gadgetcool5

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hullopilllw said:
Problem is China is already a far more responsible stakeholder than US is. She dont go around bombing and sanctioning 3rd world nations in ruins. Nor using subvertion efforts to divide nations, topple regimes that have act contary to her interest. What more do you expect ?
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Frankly, it doesn't take that much to cool people off. Simply not doing any more provocative actions during the pandemic would help tremendously.
 
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MortyandRick

Senior Member
Registered Member
gadgetcool5 said:
Cutting off all contact and shutting down all consulates except for one is not going to help. Sure, retaliate against US moves and increase its nuclear deterrence yes, but there's no reason to raise tensions needlessly.

The US perspective really is that it just wants China to be more of a responsible stakeholder and slightly liberalize. I know it's hard to believe but it's true. In every speech they say it, and if you listen to what average Americans say, that's what they believe too.
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That's is not true! They don't want China to liberalize, they want China to either switch to a democratic model which the US can influence or collapse to stop technological development that may over take the US. China needs to join the US led alliance framework or else they want to take China down. Do you really think they would let a none western Anglo Saxon country to beat them? Even japan, with a democratic government system and western ally, got thoroughly man handled by the US in the 1980s because they were about to over take the US tech lead. Is that fair? Would you say they just wanted japan to be a more responsible stakeholder as well? NO. They wanted to keep their economic and technological domination.

I thought what you said before made sense and was objective but this last comment is not realistic I feel.
 
Phead128

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
US needs a constant "adversary" in order to justify a military budget bigger than the next top 10 nations combined, 7 of which are US allies.

So that's why you have a "China threat" even though China has never fired a single bullet in over 40 years, while US is currently bombing 8 different countries now.

Hypocrites going to be hypocrites.
 
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gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member
MortyandRick said:
That's is not true! They don't want China to liberalize, they want China to either switch to a democratic model which the US can influence or collapse to stop technological development that may over take the US. China needs to join the US led alliance framework or else they want to take China down. Do you really think they would let a none western Anglo Saxon country to beat them? Even japan, with a democratic government system and western ally, got thoroughly man handled by the US in the 1980s because they were about to over take the US tech lead. Is that fair? Would you say they just wanted japan to be a more responsible stakeholder as well? NO. They wanted to keep their economic and technological domination.

I thought what you said before made sense and was objective but this last comment is not realistic I feel.
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Of course they will do certain things with Japan like pressure them not to export to their market or compete in certain industries. But they will not shut down the Japanese consulate or put Japanese companies on an entity list, put a visa ban on Japanese students in the US, or start a new Cold War with Japan. And even if they do, a China that acts more aggressive is only playing into their hands by alienating neutral third countries.
 
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