China need a new geopolitical Doctrine ?

free_6ix9ine said:

It's not called being a coward it's called you shouldn't fight multiple wars at the same time. Do you want to fight India + US + whoever else has a bone to pick with China. Or would you rather challenge the US one on one? I don't know but the answer seems pretty clear to me.

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Did that happen? No. The CCP managed it just fine, preserving its own interests through a show of its might without it exploding into the crisis you made up. Once again, just like yesterday, you cannot use your imagination of what might have happened to argue against what actually did happen.

manqiangrexue said:

Did that happen? No. The CCP managed it just fine, preserving its own interests through a show of its might without it exploding into the crisis you made up. Once again, just like yesterday, you cannot use your imagination of what might happen to argue against what actually did happen.

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manqiangrexue said:

Did that happen? No. The CCP managed it just fine, preserving its own interests through a show of its might without it exploding into the crisis you made up. Once again, just like yesterday, you cannot use your imagination of what might have happened to argue against what actually did happen.

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Looks like India is teaming up with US and Australia and Japan to counter china. Great job guys. We manage to push another of our neighbors into a US alliance.

free_6ix9ine said:

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Looks like India is teaming up with US and Australia and Japan to counter china. Great job guys. We manage to push another of our neighbors into a US alliance.

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LOL What is this? It says there is the possibility of Japan joining a naval exercise routinely carried out by India, Australia, USA. Do you know how many countries conduct naval exercised together just for show? Which one of these was a friendly country to begin with? Absolutely nothing changed. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill.

Great job to whom for doing what? What kind of job would you do? Go around giving away China's interests and conceding to neighboring countries hoping to buy their alliance? That's pathetic; that's like the kid who tries to buy friends at school by giving people his lunch money as he gets thinner and weaker from starving. No country with that kind of mentality can possibly be a leader. All leaders achieve their positions and overcome their obstacles through strength. And their allies are countries who follow, admire, and fear this strength.

Your problem is that you have a childishly simplistic view of international relations. You imagine that China can open negotiations with all the neighbors that it has disputes with and all will come in good faith ready to offer a reasonable deal and be thankful that mighty China is kind enough to reason with them. This is not the real world. In the real world, everyone is cut-throat. When they hear that China is ready to negotiate with everybody, they will all know that China's too weak to handle all of its disputes so everyone show up with a laundry list of tough demands that they want from China. Then what? Do you tell them the go screw themselves or do you give everybody what they want and make China look like an international loser who capitulated on all its of disputes to mini-countries? You have no idea what you're advocating for.

manqiangrexue said:

LOL What is this? It says there is the possibility of Japan joining a naval exercise routinely carried out by India, Australia, USA. Do you know how many countries conduct naval exercised with the US just for show? Which one of these was a friendly country to begin with? Absolutely nothing changed. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill.

Great job to whom for doing what? What kind of job would you do? Go around giving away China's interests and conceding to neighboring countries hoping to buy their alliance? That's pathetic; that's like the kid who tries to buy friends at school by given them his lunch money. No country with that kind of mentality can possibly be a leader. All leaders achieve their positions and overcome their obstacles through strength.

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Look if you think it's worth it for us to fight India and ASEAN over a couple of rocks and some barren land at 500000 feet, while America gleefully watches from afar. You dont realize AMERICA is China's most dangerous adversary. America won Cold War because they had a better economic system and they managed to trap the Soviet Union in to fighting stupid wars with Afghanistan.

Sure we are not in a hot war with India, but for every dollar and ounce of energy spent on dealing with India. We could be using that to find ways to challenge the US which is our TRUE adversary.

ONCE again if you think turning semi-neutral countries into actual enemies is a good strategy then I don't even know what to say.

Did America invade Iraq by themselves? Did America win WW2 without any allies?

If Trump was smart he would have resolved the conflict with the EU to focus on beating down China. So America doesn't even go to war with by themselves.

free_6ix9ine said:

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Looks like India is teaming up with US and Australia and Japan to counter china. Great job guys. We manage to push another of our neighbors into a US alliance.

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??

What are you talking about? India wants and sees China as the enemy for some reason. China has literally nothing it can do in this situation.

free_6ix9ine said:

Look if you think it's worth it for us to fight India and ASEAN over a couple of rocks and some barren land at 500000 feet, while America gleefully watches from afar. You dont realize AMERICA is China's most dangerous adversary. America won Cold War because they had a better economic system and they managed to trap the Soviet Union in to fighting stupid wars with Afghanistan.

Sure we are not in a hot war with India, but for every dollar and ounce of energy spent on dealing with India. We could be using that to find ways to challenge the US which is our TRUE adversary.

ONCE again if you think turning semi-neutral countries into actual enemies is a good strategy then I don't even know what to say.

Did America invade Iraq by themselves? Did America win WW2 without any allies?

If Trump was smart he would have resolved the conflict with the EU to focus on beating down China. So America doesn't even go to war with by themselves.

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That is not how it works. My humble opinion read some history books. You can appease your "enemies" as much as you want but then where is the line? There are so many examples just from 100 years ago. Even from 40 years ago; Margaret Teacher was not going to give HK sovereignty back to China but after faced with a strong/determined Deng she had to back down. You give India "some rocks" then they will ask for whole Aksai Chin, then they will say Tibet should be independent, then they will say Xinjiang should be independent too. Suddenly, they will recognize independent Taiwan and say HongKong should be like Singapore... It is endless. never ends.

This is actually exactly how 1962 war happened. Seriously, history repeats itself. After 1960 Sino-Soviet split, India thought Moscow will support India and hence started to move its border post further and further into China for months/years. They didn't even consider border was in *dispute*. China finally run out of patience.

After covid-19 and USA-China trade/tech war, India again think it will get the support of DC this time. Start tpo push border patrols into Chinese side of very well know LAC provoking China. China has no option. As I wrote before, if India did what it is doing to any other country, it will trigger a war in no time.

free_6ix9ine said:

Look if you think it's worth it for us to fight India and ASEAN over a couple of rocks and some barren land at 500000 feet, while America gleefully watches from afar. You dont realize AMERICA is China's most dangerous adversary. America won Cold War because they had a better economic system and they managed to trap the Soviet Union in to fighting stupid wars with Afghanistan.

Sure we are not in a hot war with India, but for every dollar and ounce of energy spent on dealing with India. We could be using that to find ways to challenge the US which is our TRUE adversary.

ONCE again if you think turning semi-neutral countries into actual enemies is a good strategy then I don't even know what to say.

Did America invade Iraq by themselves? Did America win WW2 without any allies?

If Trump was smart he would have resolved the conflict with the EU to focus on beating down China. So America doesn't even go to war with by themselves.

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You don't know what to say because you have nothing good to say.

Your incompetence in reading comprehension leads you to continue to believe that while you advocate for peace through negotiation, I advocate for a contentious relationship through bullying. No. In reality, you advocate for showing weakness and creating a feeding frenzy on Chinese blood resulting in closer American alliances in Asia (due to its success in drawing concessions from China) while I advocate for an Asian alliance through Chinese strength and leadership.

You cannot win any friends by giving away things because your gift is a one time deal (which will be interpreted as weakness) while strength is lasting. You can give everybody everything they want and leave China with nothing and tomorrow, they will forget and in the end, they will support America more because they fear a powerful America and not a weak China that gives away its own interests in fear of conflict. It is actually counter to what you think; strength invites friendship/alliance while your weakness only signals others to join an attack on you. For every ounce you give these little countries, they will want a pound more and you will have shown them that with America on their side, they can extract that from China. Get out of your fantasy because there is no kindness in the international equation; there is only strength. America can hardly muster a smile now but by doing what you wish, you will give them glee as they watch China lose again and again to its small neighbors.

Don't be in a rush; in a game of chess, you cannot just ignore all other enemy pieces and focus only on his king. To vanquish a king, you must defeat his army.

manqiangrexue said:

Also, I'm not saying to isolate, China vs. the world. Never. I'm saying that America's encirclement seems less likely under Trump (which was the beginning of our discussion) and also that Chinese strength is the key to gaining allies. Basically, it's pretty much your #3 option. Our disagreement was not on that; it was on you saying that China needs to soften and hide its powers to gain alliances in Asia and I said that weakness or disarmament never gains allies because countries always want to follow strength to assure that they are on the winning side.

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I would qualify that statement by saying that

a) It's nice to be on the winning side
b) But catastrophic to be on the losing side

manqiangrexue said:

I don't understand what you mean because American economy, military, and technology, have all improved in the last 30 years. They're not going backwards; they're just going forward slower than China.

That is kind of presumptuous to say that the world will always need to be run by the visions of a single country. I don't think China has the desire to interfere with things so far from itself, as over-extension and exhaustion has often been the downfall of many powers. China should aim to do what's important for itself to preserve and build its own nation and invest far less on global interference than the US. The world isn't a kindergarten for China or the US to run.

I think the fundamental reason why the West lacks STEM students is because they've grown too comfortable with their lead and everyone wants a comfortable life with a comfortable major. I can't foresee if China will also fall into this trap but one good thing is that Chinese families are so competitive with each other that even without other peer countries, they will still drive their kids to undertake the toughest academic challenges just to rub it in their neighbor's faces LOL

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1) No, the US actually has ran backwards in many key metrics. Every institution has gotten worse since the 90s (basic education, infrastructure, financial regulations etc.) Even in scientific progress, the quality of journals like Science and Nature have deteriorated.

2) You're assuming that I'm presuming the world would/should be run by China's visions (that wasn't the point.) It would benefit my civilization a lot if China can help free the world from the Western world order so that we can get a chance to breathe without interference. We want time and space to figure out our problems in our own way.

3) There are more fundamental problems than the lack of STEM graduates. It's not just the lack of volume, it's the quality of the science and the corruption of the enterprise.

free_6ix9ine said:

Ya. we got the Indians to withdraw, but what does that accomplish? Now Modi is jumping in glee to join the American cold war idea. Why don't we sit down and negotiate lasting truce with India and solve this problem once and for all?

You think Modi would be so eager to join the cold War if we didn't have a border dispute with them?

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I'll disagree with you here. China trying to play nice with a country like India isn't going to work. Just ask all the countries who have tried to play nice with India. In fact, China has been trying to play nice with India since the beginning. It was always India which refused.

China definitely does need to be strong and show strength in protecting its rights and claims.

Mohsin77 said:

2) You're assuming that I'm presuming the world would/should be run by China's visions (that wasn't the point.) It would benefit my civilization a lot if China can help free the world from the Western world order so that we can get a chance to breathe without interference. We want time and space to figure out our problems in our own way.

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I completely agree here and it answers your earlier question. China doesn't seek to impose its view upon the world but curtailing American global influence so that countries that are unfairly hindered have a chance to grow would be a natural consequence of China displacing America at the top. So I guess in that sense, China's world view, if it qualifies as one, is less America in the world view...