China naval drills in East China Sea

Hendrik_2000

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
bladerunner said:
We are both wrong: The Daily Mail whose link you posted said the Kitty Hawk had just completed her exercises and was on route to Okinawa. I still maintain however that I read on an American forum, that routes US navy fleet takes on way to exercise etc were published The poster had given the time and links to where a published copy of the notice could be found.
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Can you provide the link I find it incredulous that Navy would publish such a thing what for?

Here from the horses mouth
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(AP) A Chinese submarine came close to the USS Kitty Hawk carrier group in the Pacific Ocean last month, a top U.S. naval commander confirmed Tuesday, adding the encounter could have triggered an "unforeseen" incident.

A Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, however, said she had not heard of such an incident.

[B]The aircraft carrier and its supporting ships were conducting exercises in an unidentified location when the encounter occurred, Adm. William Fallon, the commander of U.S. Pacific Command, told reporters.[/B]
 
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bladerunner

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Hendrik_2000 said:
Can you provide the link I find it incredulous that Navy would publish such a thing what for?

/B][/U]
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To warn anyone who might be sailing off the normal shipping routes perhaps. I wouldnt want to be around in my sailboat with live ordnances being chucked around.
No Im not going to try and find something I read a couple a yrs ago. Nor do I think would they give the exact location, just a general description. I wouldnt find it strange in peacetime to indicate ones propsed route of travel.

Eg Navy anounces that on such and such a date xyz ships would be leaving port on such and such a date and exercise with other elements on such n such a date in the S. China sea, and travelling through such n such region or whatever
Just look at Chinese armed forces when they are training or on exercise with other countries etc. Location size troops etc are well publized so whats wrong with the navy doing it.
 
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Hendrik_2000

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
bladerunner said:
To warn anyone who might be sailing off the normal shipping routes perhaps. I wouldnt want to be around in my sailboat with live ordnances being chucked around.
No Im not going to try and find something I read a couple a yrs ago. Nor do I think would they give the exact location, just a general description. I wouldnt find it strange in peacetime to indicate ones propsed route of travel.

Eg Navy anounces that on such and such a date xyz ships would be leaving port on such and such a date and exercise with other elements on such n such a date in the S. China sea, and travelling through such n such region or whatever
Just look at Chinese armed forces when they are training or on exercise with other countries etc. Location size troops etc are well publized so whats wrong with the navy doing it.
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Then there is no credibility whatsoever in the purported publication of time and venue of the exercise. I doubt that some Fan Boy know more than Admiral Fallon who categorically said "Unidentified location where the incident occur" in front of reporters
 
Engineer

Engineer

Major
bladerunner said:
I was merely using using rules of courtesy and diplomacy as a figure of speech, rather than suggesting they exist as hard and fast defacto laws of the sea regarding transit. Perhaps I should have omitted "rules" and just said "common courtesy/ diplomacy"
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So, let's us consider the hypothetical scenario where China did show "common courtesy", what would bladerunner do? He would probably critize China for trying to intimidate its neighbour by holding an exercise. He would probably critize China by accusing it of flexing its muscles. Also, were China to announce ahead of time the route their fleet was going to take, there probably wouldn't be Japanese ships -- but Japanese fleets tail gazing the Chinese. The western media would probably dramatize it as a face-off between Chinese and Japanese fleet, and bladerunner would probably cease the opportunity to critize China for raising tension in East Asia.

In short, would showing your "common courtesy" actually make any difference? Just as you would critize China regardless of the circumstances, the Japanese and Western media would still have made a big deal out of nothing so as to go on a China-bashing splee. I think the answer is unlikely.

bladerunner said:
Im merely asking, at the time of the Kitty Hawk Incident the US had clearly announced its intentions and the route it was taking...
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Source?

bladerunner said:
I really think had it chose to do so, all this ballyhoo could have been prevented. Considering China is going to a lot of trouble to allay the concerns of nearby countries with its military growth, perhaps iin this situation it was merely a case of oversight.
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See my first resposne in this post.
 
bladerunner

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Engineer said:
So, let's us consider the hypothetical scenario where China did show "common courtesy", what would bladerunner do? He would probably critize China for trying to intimidate its neighbour by holding an exercise. He would probably critize China by accusing it of flexing its muscles. Also, were China to announce ahead of time the route their fleet was going to take, there probably wouldn't be Japanese ships -- but Japanese fleets tail gazing the Chinese. The western media would probably dramatize it as a face-off between Chinese and Japanese fleet, and bladerunner would probably cease the opportunity to critize China for raising tension in East Asia.

In short, would showing your "common courtesy" actually make any difference? Just as you would critize China regardless of the circumstances, the Japanese and Western media would still have made a big deal out of nothing so as to go on a China-bashing splee. I think the answer is unlikely.
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:rofl: Now you are beeing a drama queen. It wasnt a criticism, in the first instance. It was a suggestion. China's had many military exercises, I challenge you to find another incidence where I criticise China for having the audacity of having military exercises.
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Zool

Zool

Junior Member
bladerunner said:
:rofl: Now you are beeing a drama queen. It wasnt a criticism, in the first instance. It was a suggestion. China's had many military exercises, I challenge you to find another incidence where I criticise China for having the audacity of having military exercises.
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Perhaps folks would take your challenge seriously if you provided support for your own claims (read below). A little more factual/informative posting instead of overt critical opinion would go a long way. :coffee:

bladerunner said:
We are both wrong: The Daily Mail whose link you posted said the Kitty Hawk had just completed her exercises and was on route to Okinawa. I still maintain however that I read on an American forum, that routes US navy fleet takes on way to exercise etc were published The poster had given the time and links to where a published copy of the notice could be found.
Click to expand...
Hendrik_2000 said:
Can you provide the link I find it incredulous that Navy would publish such a thing what for?.
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bladerunner said:
To warn anyone who might be sailing off the normal shipping routes perhaps. I wouldnt want to be around in my sailboat with live ordnances being chucked around.
No Im not going to try and find something I read a couple a yrs ago.
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J

jantxv

New Member
The Japanese were NOT complaining about the Chinese ships merely transiting around Japan.

The Japanese are pissed about a Chinese helicopter from one of the Chinese ships hovering over a Japanese destroyer at a altitude lower that the mast of the ship.

That's what all the jumping up and down is about. The Japanese have valid grave concerns about it. What if the helicopter hit the mast of the ship and crashed into the water? Would the Chinese ships think that the Japanese just shot down their helicopter?

This is the issue and there is precedent for it. Remember the Hainan Island incident. Apparently the close quarters flying resulted in tragedy. The Japanese don't won't a repeat of that by being accused that they, "radically steered their ship's mast into the innocent Chinese copter".
 
Engineer

Engineer

Major
bladerunner said:
Now you are beeing a drama queen.
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Oh yes, very mature. :rolleyes:

bladerunner said:
It wasnt a criticism, in the first instance. It was a suggestion. China's had many military exercises, I challenge you to find another incidence where I criticise China for having the audacity of having military exercises.
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When have I said you only criticize China for performing exercise? Read my post again and you will see I said you criticize China regardless of the circumstances. Your "common courtesy" is merely an excuse you used for China bashing. Had China shown your "common courtesy", you would have found some other means to bash China. Like you, Japanese and Western media would have make a big deal out of nothing for China bashing purpose.

jantxv said:
The Japanese were NOT complaining about the Chinese ships merely transiting around Japan.

The Japanese are pissed about a Chinese helicopter from one of the Chinese ships hovering over a Japanese destroyer at a altitude lower that the mast of the ship.

That's what all the jumping up and down is about. The Japanese have valid grave concerns about it. What if the helicopter hit the mast of the ship and crashed into the water? Would the Chinese ships think that the Japanese just shot down their helicopter?
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You are now making s*** up. The helicopter never flew over the Japanese ship, let alone flew over the ship below the tip of the mast. From the horse's mouth:
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The closest encounter was 30m away from the ship at a 90m altitude. That's a hypotenuse of 95m, implying that the helicopter consciously kept a minimum distance at around 100m.

The Japanese themselves often do the same thing with their P3C, which is much more dangerous. So, they should be the last one allowed to complain on this matter.
 
J

jantxv

New Member
Engineer said:
You are now making s*** up. The helicopter never flew over the Japanese ship, let alone flew over the ship below the tip of the mast. From the horse's mouth:
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As I said before, I was NOT taking sides. The source:
However, the helicopter ignored the orders and continued toward the Suzunami. Ultimately the helicopter was only about 90 meters away from the Suzunami at a height of about 30 meters, lower than the destroyer's mast.
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In my book, that's definitely over my warship. In yours, you need it even closer. I'm sure if someone has the time they can look up the law and see what it says. The Japanese have a valid point. The Chinese get angry when a US warship goes into the South China Sea, an entire sea for crying out loud.

There is definitely a double standard on this forum. Apparently, if a poster disagrees with the "motherland/fatherland/whatever" you are instantly labeled a "anti china/westerner/imperialist/white/etc" and ganged up on.

Don't let the "SinoDefenceForum" become a "Thug-O-cracy" in the defense forum circles. It looks really bad when so-called "senior members" violate their own rules.

Senior Members, lead by example. Don't kiss up to nor denigrate other individuals, races, nations, groups, etc... These are your own rules. You soil only your own face when you ignore them or apply them unevenly.

There also seems to be a lot of one-sided and unwarranted banning lately by the heavy handed. "Banned Idiot" is hardly the hallmark of a professional site. This is NOT a Chinese site. It is a Global Site. No-one here should pander to Chinese sentiment nor denigrate it. Politics has no place here, so don't bring it up, even in favor of China. How hard is this?
 
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rhino123

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
jantxv said:
The Chinese get angry when a US warship goes into the South China Sea, an entire sea for crying out loud.
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Now you are making things up. It is the US who complained about being haress by 5 chinese ships. They are the one who complained. As far as China is concern, the water in which the US impeccable was sailing in is CHinese water. And they have the right to chase out any intruder. Obviously US do not agree on this... and that is about it.

But this is way out of topic.

Reference:

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2)
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jantxv said:
There is definitely a double standard on this forum. Apparently, if a poster disagrees with the "motherland/fatherland/whatever" you are instantly labeled a "anti china/westerner/imperialist/white/etc" and ganged up on.

Don't let the "SinoDefenceForum" become a "Thug-O-cracy" in the defense forum circles. It looks really bad when so-called "senior members" violate their own rules.

Senior Members, lead by example. Don't kiss up to nor denigrate other individuals, races, nations, groups, etc... These are your own rules. You soil only your own face when you ignore them or apply them unevenly.

There also seems to be a lot of one-sided and unwarranted banning lately by the heavy handed. "Banned Idiot" is hardly the hallmark of a professional site. This is NOT a Chinese site. It is a Global Site. No-one here should pander to Chinese sentiment nor denigrate it. Politics has no place here, so don't bring it up, even in favor of China. How hard is this?
Click to expand...

In the future, if you have something against this forum, please take it out with the moderators and not start shooting in otherwise fine threads and insulting all the 'senior' members of this forum. How hard is this?
 
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