China Flanker thread

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crobato

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I don't really think the Su-34 would be efficient or deliver anything of an improvement over the H-6 if the purpose of the PLAAF for a bomber is either/or a standoff cruise missile or antiship launcher, and a JDAM bomb launcher.

It even has its own disadvantages at height due to being turbofans and the lack of wingspan. It has less space, so less crew and equipment. You can put a large chin radar on the H-6 as they do know with the H-6H/M versions, but on the Su-34, the platypus bill still limits you to a fighter size radar array.

For the resources spent trying to acquire the Su-34, you can spend it improving the J-10/J-11 or increasing their quantities, so they can do a much better job in protecting the H-6s.

If China needs another bomber, it should be more of a B-52 like plane, large with long wingspans, high payload and enough hardpoints to carry numbers of cruise missiles and antiship missiles. The B-52H would be most impressive for the PLANAF for example, like those that were once deployed with the 43rd Bombardment Wing in Guam during the eighties. These planes could carry as much as 8 (or is it 12) Harpoons.

I'm not really as much in favor of creating a B-2 like stealth bomber. For what you are trying to achieve in stealth is too much. I think its better to just focus on the basics---as much payload as you can lift, as much hardpoints to put bombs and missiles, as much loiter range to stay on the air as long as possible, and as much space to crew and equipment, so the plane can serve as its own search and targeting station. If you want to focus on stealth, focus stealth on the cruise missile itself, not on the bomber.

Not only will that be cheaper, but the cruise missile will be uninterceptible. What's the point of a stealthy bomber if the missiles itself are not stealthy and can be shot down.

I don't think the Su-34 is as defensible as any Su-30 when it encounters aerial opposition. In any case, its better to build a doctrine around circumeventing that aerial opposition rather than fight through it.
 

Chengdu J-10

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Building a strong squadron of J-11 and J-10's to protect the H-6 will be more cost efficient and beneficial to the PLAAF. Upgrading and modifying the H-6 to carry more payload with more hardpoints will be ideal for the delivery, while the J-11 and J-10's will protect the air for the H-6. Su-34 is an expensive choice for the PLAAF and its design is nothing new or extrodanary. Just some modifications to the original flankers. China has the knowledge now of producing the Su-27 so it wouldn't take long now for the Chinese to develop something like the Su-34 by themselves. Due to China's booming aviation industry and wealth. Though I still think the H-6 being protected by further upgraded J-11 and J-10's would be a wise idea.
 

tphuang

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alright, this is an interesting piece from an article, not sure if it's fake or not.
su33articleyo1.jpg

basically says that in Zhuhai 2006 airshow, this company (I assume SAC) signed an agreement with this company, not sure what it's English name is, to get 65 important carrier fighter related components, solved the problem SAC might have with repairs in the next few years.
And a bunch of other stuff in there too.
 

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
Building a strong squadron of J-11 and J-10's to protect the H-6 will be more cost efficient and beneficial to the PLAAF. Upgrading and modifying the H-6 to carry more payload with more hardpoints will be ideal for the delivery, while the J-11 and J-10's will protect the air for the H-6. Su-34 is an expensive choice for the PLAAF and its design is nothing new or extrodanary. Just some modifications to the original flankers. China has the knowledge now of producing the Su-27 so it wouldn't take long now for the Chinese to develop something like the Su-34 by themselves.
Yes, the H-6s (post(#10) are now being given 2 extra missile pylons. As for the Su-34, it may prove to be a good choice for a carrier based strike fighter, and they may buy and/or produce some of them. The PLAAF/AN will be watching their performance in the
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Actualy, the naval variant,
The Su-32FN.. a shore based long range maritime strike fighter ..is similar but features a maritime search radar, sonobuoy launcher, MAD, laser rangefinder, wingtip ECM pods and seven LCD screen EFIS cockpit. ..Su-32"FN" has been characterized by Sukhoi as a "specialized strike fighter" and "a reliable guardian of sea borders". It would be, according to Western terminology, a "missionized reconnaissance-maritime-strike platform" intended for around the clock operations to search for, detect, classify, and then destroy, if necessary, waterborne or submarine targets. It is boldly advertised as the potential successor to the Su-24, F-111, S-3A, RF-4E, EF-111A, A-6E, EA-6A, Tornado GR4, and the F-15E. And guess what, on the brute force merits as a platform, it definitely might be.
It all began around 1990 when the unique side-by-side Su-27"IB" was developed at the insistence of Viktor Pugachev, the famous Sukhoi Test Pilot, who at that time was tasked with coming up with a safe and reliable way to teach pilots how to come aboard the new carrier Knuznetzov. ..The Su-32"FN" has 12 armament/store stations and can carry the entire inventory of standoff weapons as well as up to four air-to-air missiles. The total weight for armament comes out to around 8,000 kg (17,600 lbs) with a flight range of around 4,000 km (2,160 nm), increased up to 7,000 km (3,777 nm) with in-flight refueling. It is noteworthy to mention that the Su-32"FN" can carry and employ the UPAZ air refueling store, so one Su-32 could refuel from another. External wing-tip mounted Sorbtsya ECM pods can also be carried. ..The Su-32"FN" is fitted with the "Sea Snake" avionics suite optimized for surface search, anti-surface warfare, mine-detection, reconnaissance, and anti-submarine warfare. The active radar is designed to ensure detection of waterborne targets and submarine wake trails within a dispersion area of more than 3,000 sq.-meters from 150 km range at high altitude. The "Sea Snake" is also capable of detecting airborne targets, including small ones, low over the sea out to 200 to 250 kilometers. The "FN" is equipped with an integrated GLOSNOSS/GPS navigation and with its secure datalink can serve as a search-and-rescue coordinator or a maritime environment monitor. ..In the tunnel under the fuselage between the two engine "pods", there are two tandem hardpoints designed to accept the extra-large anti-ship and air-to-surface munitions. The blended nose has been extended to accept a multi-purpose radar antenna. ..The Su-32"FN" remains perhaps the most flexible Sukhoi Flanker platform. It has the power and size to be converted to almost any role imaginable. As a platform it can go slow, fast, high, and low. It maneuvers like a small fighter plane, yet can carry cruise missiles made for bombers. It has range and load capacity superior to a Strike Eagle. The crew station is large and roomy with enough avionics volume to fit any Western or Russian weapon system. A crew member can fly, get up to cook dinner, visit the bathroom, and then stretch out for a nap, all while his buddy is pulling 7.0 G's.
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Since it already exists, with some further mods it could be made carrier capable, IMO.
 
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Chengdu J-10

Junior Member
Yes, the H-6s (post(#10) are now being given 2 extra missile pylons. As for the Su-34, it may prove to be a good choice for a carrier based strike fighter, and they may buy and/or produce some of them. The PLAAF/AN will be watching their performance in the
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Actualy, the naval variant,
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Since it already exists, with some further mods it could be made carrier capable, IMO.
I know that they put 2 extra missle pylons on the H-6 already but I was trying to say is that they should put further missile pylons on the H-6 by increasing the max payload capability on the H-6. Increasing the engine power of the 2 turbojets on the H-6 and modifying the airframe a bit.
 

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
That may be pushing the envelope too much- every design has its limitations, and you can modify it only so much. Since they are wishing to have strategic AF, it would make more sense to add 2 more engines at the wingroots & enlarge the airframe - it may resemble the Soviet
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which Russia may or may not sell to the PRC-see my post #24.
3md-4.jpg


China has unsuccessfully sought an H-6 replacement for decades. Its attempts in the mid-1990s to buy Russian Tu-22 Backfire bombers failed. Medium-range bombers, like the Chinese H-7 or the Russian Su-32/34, have been considered, but their shorter ranges and smaller payloads make a [strategic] nuclear role doubtful. A more likely choice for the nuclear strike mission may be the Russian Su-30, which has a range, weapon load, and maximum ceiling similar to the H-6. Russia has delivered about 80 of the two-seater, fighter-bomber Su-30MKKs to China so far. In early 2003, China signed a contract for delivery of Su-30 upgrades, the Su-30MK2 and Su-30MK3.
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Deino

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Just found at the Key-forum posted by Pinko !!!!

While CAC may steal the limelight with the declassification of its J-10 fighter, the SAC certainly wants to gain back some points by revealing its latest J11B heavy fighter with 2 PL-12 ARH MRAAM to the public.


J11BwithPL12.jpg
 

crobato

Colonel
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You can see the really thick engine nacelles here.

The one thing that distresses about this plane is that they have gone with a copy of the L05 Beryoza RWR or stuck with the original. Either way it does not look that much better in terms of passive sensor capabilities over the original Su-27. This RWR is the bladed structure near the engine intake. The Su-30MKK has gone into a more advanced RWR than this one, which dates back to the original Su-27.

Otherwise, a very cool pic, the best shot of the J-11B prototype yet, though I prefer to see one in a more complete paint finish. Personally I wonder how much the J-10 threatens the J-11B program. If those performance claims are valid, I have a hard time seeing why they should continue the program for other than nontactical reasons.
 

mehdi

Junior Member
Crobato I was thinking that this J-11B was only made for some basic Integration of electronics sensors. Just like the J-10 the future versions of the J-11B will surely have more advanced electronics plus the new WS-10A engine and I look forward to that.
 

maglomanic

Junior Member
You can see the really thick engine nacelles here.

The one thing that distresses about this plane is that they have gone with a copy of the L05 Beryoza RWR or stuck with the original. Either way it does not look that much better in terms of passive sensor capabilities over the original Su-27. This RWR is the bladed structure near the engine intake. The Su-30MKK has gone into a more advanced RWR than this one, which dates back to the original Su-27.

This MKK picture shows the same bladed structures near tail (that is if i understood you correct about the location and this picture is indeed MKK).

Still not sure how to identify the various RWR.
 
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