China Flanker Thread II

[Schwerter_]

It did ... just look at the airframe changes like the IFR-probe, the taller tails + larger rudders, the strengthened landing gears and as such most likely also stronger airframe. It is de facto a Su-30MKK-based type much more than a Su-27UBK or J-11BS based one.

But at the same time we can assume that structural-wise it is most likely a further development on the J-11B/BS concept (reduced titanium usage and increased composite usage, etc), also the FCS most likely is developed from the J-11BS's digital FCS instead of from the SU-30MKK. So I guess a way to see it is that it is a jet developed along the J-11B line while taking heavy inspiration from SU-30MKK in terms of various sub-systems, such as AAR probe, twin-wheeled front gear, and enlarged rudders as you mentioned.

 

[Deino]

But at the same time we can assume that structural-wise it is most likely a further development on the J-11B/BS concept (reduced titanium usage and increased composite usage, etc), also the FCS most likely is developed from the J-11BS's digital FCS instead of from the SU-30MKK. So I guess a way to see it is that it is a jet developed along the J-11B line while taking heavy inspiration from SU-30MKK in terms of various sub-systems, such as AAR probe, twin-wheeled front gear, and enlarged rudders as you mentioned.

Excatly

 

[LCR34]

But at the same time we can assume that structural-wise it is most likely a further development on the J-11B/BS concept (reduced titanium usage and increased composite usage, etc), also the FCS most likely is developed from the J-11BS's digital FCS instead of from the SU-30MKK. So I guess a way to see it is that it is a jet developed along the J-11B line while taking heavy inspiration from SU-30MKK in terms of various sub-systems, such as AAR probe, twin-wheeled front gear, and enlarged rudders as you mentioned.

I have always wondered why since PLA have J15 in its inventory, they never bothered to make J16s like the MKI/MKMs, 30sm/sm2 etc with canards and TVC. Instead they stuck with 30mkk/mk2 designs.

 

[tphuang]

I have always wondered why since PLA have J15 in its inventory, they never bothered to make J16s like the MKI/MKMs, 30sm/sm2 etc with canards and TVC. Instead they stuck with 30mkk/mk2 designs.

Here is the thing. Su30mkk was not a simple export project. China was deeply involved with it. So, it has a lot of experience with the structural improvement Russians made on mkk. If I remember correctly, it had 85% common parts with su35ub. So while it may have come with old avionics, china far preferred the air frame over what was on mki. That's why when they developed j16s, they would have also went with the design that they are familiar with.

 

[LCR34]

Here is the thing. Su30mkk was not a simple export project. China was deeply involved with it. So, it has a lot of experience with the structural improvement Russians made on mkk. If I remember correctly, it had 85% common parts with su35ub. So while it may have come with old avionics, china far preferred the air frame over what was on mki. That's why when they developed j16s, they would have also went with the design that they are familiar with.

Ah the old Su-35ub, iirc its based on MKK, added canard etc.

 

[Schwerter_]

I have always wondered why since PLA have J15 in its inventory, they never bothered to make J16s like the MKI/MKMs, 30sm/sm2 etc with canards and TVC. Instead they stuck with 30mkk/mk2 designs.

My take is that there are a few possibilities.

1. As J-15 was a bit of a rush job they don't really have a lot of grasp on the canards, and using it on J-16, which was in development roughly at same time was just too risky.
2. They found that J-16 without the canards work good enough for their needs and decided not to add additional complexity to the project,
3. They determined that adding canards would perlong the development time of the J-16 and as at the time the PLAAF was in great need of advanced fighters, it was believed that getting J-16 into production quicker was more beneficial than spending additional time on adding canards.

Just my personal thoughts tho

 

[siegecrossbow]

I have always wondered why since PLA have J15 in its inventory, they never bothered to make J16s like the MKI/MKMs, 30sm/sm2 etc with canards and TVC. Instead they stuck with 30mkk/mk2 designs.

I’ve heard that in the case of MKI/MKM the canards were added to compensate for the heavier weight of the new radar. Adding additional control surfaces is not idea since it adds additional drag.

In the case of the J-15 the canards provide additional lift during takeoff, which softens the takeoff distance for a carrier fighter.

 

[tphuang]

Something from ShiLao podcast today. They mentioned that J-16 performed really well in the military exercise in Russia (Zapad 2021?). In the final part of the competition, it not only did better than su-34 but had the best ever score in ground attacks. Quite impressive when considering that Su-34 is more attack focused than J-16 and has more combat experience.

 

[Totoro]

I guess it depends whether those exercises measured guided or unguided strikes. If they were guided, it wouldn't surprise me at all if j16 did better. Russian targeting/guided bomb tech is easily a decade if not two behind what China uses.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Something from ShiLao podcast today. They mentioned that J-16 performed really well in the military exercise in Russia (Zapad 2021?). In the final part of the competition, it not only did better than su-34 but had the best ever score in ground attacks. Quite impressive when considering that Su-34 is more attack focused than J-16 and has more combat experience.

Isn't Aviadarts just dropping dumb bombs?