China Flanker Thread II

[plawolf]

Another significant factor to consider is airframe life.

Japan’s Eagles are old, and it’s not just for lolz that the PLAAF has made inducing Japanese scrambles part of their regular scheduled exercises.

Every time the Japanese scrambles Eagles, who have to burn hard to ‘intercept’ the Chinese Flankers, who would just be flying along comfortably in cruise mode, it adds significant wear and tear on their engines and more significantly, airframes.

One of the main reasons Japan has not being updating all their Eagles is a consideration for remaining useful airframe time.

And it’s not these run down Eagles that Japan are using for scrambles either.

It’s not beyond the realm of possibility that in a real fight, with everyone pushing their birds to and beyond designed tolerances, those Japanese Eagles might start coming apart all by themselves.

 

[siegecrossbow]

F-2's roles are mainly for attack and BVR engagement. Its TWR of only .89 is pathetically low for a plane that costs 3x more than an F-16C, and that's a TWR lower than both the FC-1 and the FCK-1. F-35s are but a trickle and half to more than half of the F-15Js may not have been upgraded yet, or perhaps not fit or too old to be upgraded.

Russia has a strong decent come back story for its modernization of its large Su-27 fleet, which not only includes upgrades, but the addition of Su-30, Su-30M2, Su-30SM and Su-27SM3 (Block III are all built brand new and have Irbis radar). Su-30M2 is the equivalent of the PLANAF Su-30MK2 localized to RuAF needs, and the Su-30SM is localized version based on the Su-30MKI template.

Adding to what you said - although the F-35 has long legs (similar to that of a flanker), it doesn't fly fast enough to act as an interceptor and can't really replace the F-15J as Japan's mainstay air superiority fighter in that regard. There is a reason why Japan has invested in a F-3 fighter.

 

[plawolf]

Adding to what you said - although the F-35 has long legs (similar to that of a flanker), it doesn't fly fast enough to act as an interceptor and can't really replace the F-15J as Japan's mainstay air superiority fighter in that regard. There is a reason why Japan has invested in a F-3 fighter.

Using F35s for peacetime intercepts is also just asking for trouble since even in training mode, PLAAF radars should get some very useful returns from them.

In my view, RCS is a lot like acoustics, in that if you have the specific signature of a target, you can programme your sensors to specifically look for that signiture, and should be able to get a lock far further out compared to standard scanning methods.

Think of RCS as like you are in a crowded room with everyone speaking at the same time.

There is a lot of general background noise. It’s only as you get close enough to some stranger that the relative volume of their voice rises above the general background noise to allow you to pick them up.

Now, imagine instead of a total stranger, you are listening out specifically for someone who’s voice you know well. You will be able to pick out that voice far further out, even if the background noise level is of a similar level if not louder.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Using F35s for peacetime intercepts is also just asking for trouble since even in training mode, PLAAF radars should get some very useful returns from them.

In my view, RCS is a lot like acoustics, in that if you have the specific signature of a target, you can programme your sensors to specifically look for that signiture, and should be able to get a lock far further out compared to standard scanning methods.

Think of RCS as like you are in a crowded room with everyone speaking at the same time.

There is a lot of general background noise. It’s only as you get close enough to some stranger that the relative volume of their voice rises above the general background noise to allow you to pick them up.

Now, imagine instead of a total stranger, you are listening out specifically for someone who’s voice you know well. You will be able to pick out that voice far further out, even if the background noise level is of a similar level if not louder.

Can't you intercept with luneberg lense attached?

 

[Tam]

Adding to what you said - although the F-35 has long legs (similar to that of a flanker), it doesn't fly fast enough to act as an interceptor and can't really replace the F-15J as Japan's mainstay air superiority fighter in that regard. There is a reason why Japan has invested in a F-3 fighter.

F-35s are not currently allowed to fly past 7G.

The F-2 program is just a massive failure of its own. Not only was the plane under powered and vastly over the budget, it suffered from cracks. The original 300 plane number was cut to only 98. That reeks of pure project management failure.

The X3 fighter or Shinshin as it is called, which sounds very Chinese or Kanji, as it means spirit of the heart or something like that, has stopped its trials, and even at best, won't see a production form before 2027. Japan is now looking to cooperate with another country like the UK, suggesting that the program is literally good as dead.

Its hard to take the Shinshin seriously. It only has these small engines, and a small radar. A small plane with a small internal bay that will only hold a limited amount of fuel and weapons. Its more in the same class as the FC-31. Or maybe even smaller than that.

 

[Deino]

Guys ... discussing the F-15J vs. Su-30MKK/J-11B might be related to the topic, but Japanese F-35, their tiny stealth demonstrator and so on is now already too far off.

 

[KlRc80]

I don't know if this was posted before, a recent article:

How did Japan lose its air superiority? Article compares once again, Eagles to Flankers.

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In my opinion, JASDF lost it long ago, the moment their neighbors fielded active guided AAMs earlier and faster than the JASDF, and I am not just referring to China alone but also to other Asian countries.

The article didn't mention about Japan's AAM-4B that's supposed to be the world's first AAM with AESA seeker when introduced.

Report probably was written to support/ justify more F-35 purchases by Japan.

 

[Tam]

The article didn't mention about Japan's AAM-4B that's supposed to be the world's first AAM with AESA seeker when introduced.

Report probably was written to support/ justify more F-35 purchases by Japan.

The AESA seeker allows the missile to have a catch envelope that's bigger than using a mechanical seeker, so the missile can leave its midphase inertial + datalink guidance earlier, meaning it also enters terminal phase earlier, allowing the F-2 to run away earlier. Remember the F-2 needs to stay away from opposing fighters and being fired at with missiles as much as possible because you know...bad TWR. However, when you have a longer terminal seeker range, there is a big catch to that --- it warns the target earlier as well. The CWI (Continuous Wave Illumination) will set off the all RWRs (Radar Warning Receivers) at range, warning the targets to do evasive maneuvers and use countermeasures. There is a good reason why its better to keep the "link" on the missile until the last possible moment, before letting the seeker go live at the closest possible distance to the target --- it nets you a better PK. CWI limits the advantages of using AESA, since you can't use frequency agility, LPI, etc,. The radar on the missile only works on a single mode --- CWI.

These missiles are so big that it can't fit inside an F-35's internal bay, which makes developing a new missile necessary, in partnership with a UK partner. The AAM-4 at 222kg also makes it heavier than other missiles, 170kg for AIM-120, 180kg for PL-12 and R-77, but the range for the first version only gets you 100km, with the B version at 120km. That only matches "last generation" PL-12 and R-77, but not new generation like PL-15, R-77 mods, AIM-120C7 and AIM-120D. Obviously the AAM-4 lacks things like dual pulse rocket motors and leaves the impression the air frame does not live up to the potential of the seeker. There is also no info on the AAM-4 on other important data like overload G, SD-10 at greater than 30G, the AIM-120D said to max at 40G. So its hard to say how it performs against an evasive target.

 

[latenlazy]

J-20 and H-6 in the same frame.

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Wrong thread?

 

[Deino]

Finally a clear image of a J-16 in the new low-visibility scheme .... maybe for the Naval Aviation?