China Flanker Thread II

[Air Force Brat]

Ahh I see. There's the problem for me. Always believed the Mirage to be a much more agile fighter in high altitude than the heavy Su-30. Of course pilot skill is of greatest importance.

all hearsay at this stage,, I'm rather certain that the F-15J would do very well going up against the Flanker,,, from the P-3, P-8 intercepts,, the other team is a little trigger happy to say the least!

Flankers are great, but I'm sure the Taiwanese are told to be laid back, I can guarandamntee you they are not "lighting up Flankers" with their fire control radar,, that is aggressive, and not neighborly for an intercept.. so they won't be doing that, any information to the contrary is hearsay!

If they stir something up on their own, they are likely "on their own",,, they won't do that, but we already have video of aggressive PLAAF intercepts on our P-8 in international airspace... anyway, the Flanker is quite agile, but it really doesn't come into its own without OVT..

Without a video play by play, this is just "cheerleading" for the home team

 

[manqiangrexue]

all hearsay at this stage,, I'm rather certain that the F-15J would do very well going up against the Flanker,,, from the P-3, P-8 intercepts,, the other team is a little trigger happy to say the least!

And I'm rather certain they won't. Difference is I've got precedence on my side and you've got wishes.

Flankers are great, but I'm sure the Taiwanese are told to be laid back, I can guarandamntee you they are not "lighting up Flankers" with their fire control radar,, that is aggressive, and not neighborly for an intercept.. so they won't be doing that, any information to the contrary is hearsay!

Statement in bold requires source, not "guarandamntee," whatever that means...

If they stir something up on their own, they are likely "on their own",,, they won't do that, but we already have video of aggressive PLAAF intercepts on our P-8 in international airspace... anyway, the Flanker is quite agile, but it really doesn't come into its own without OVT..

Next time, spy better. Get caught spying and that's what happens; play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Without a video play by play, this is just "cheerleading" for the home team

The following are examples of cheer-leading:
"I'm rather certain that the F-15J would do very well going up against the Flanker..."
"I'm sure the Taiwanese are told to be laid back..."

 

[Tam]

With a bigger radome, the J-11B would have advantage in BVR with its bigger and therefore more powerful radar than the J-10B.

Otoh, the information, if accurate, point to the J-10B being able to gain the advantage in BVR over the J-11B, possibly in spite of its bigger and more powerful radar, by being stealthier with the use of DSI and by the fact of it being smaller size.

I

The J-11 has the bigger radar, having more transmission power works very well with a larger radar antenna that captures more radiant energy. The J-10 on the other hand, hides its engine intake thanks to the DSI and the shape of its intake take, and should be stealthier.

Close range, will boil down to pilot skill and experience.

 

[Tam]

Ahh I see. There's the problem for me. Always believed the Mirage to be a much more agile fighter in high altitude than the heavy Su-30. Of course pilot skill is of greatest importance.

Without canards, deltas use elevons for turns, control surfaces require greater angles of attack to exert the same amount of control forces, this results in greater drag and energy bleed during turns. This is the reason why pure deltas --- other than delta canards --- have fallen out of favor.

 

[Tam]

If a J-7 can win against the Su-27 during DACT exercises, a Mirage-2000 (especially the upgraded ones used by the ROCAF) can very possibly win against a Su-30.

Long time ago, the Su-27 pilots were taken from the ranks of J-8II squadrons, due to the fact that these pilots were the only ones that were trained to use radar and BVR. Unfortunately these pilots, thanks to their previous ride, don't dogfight as well either, since they tend to practice interceptor like tactics using speed and shoot. Another factor is that these pilots were also babying their planes, after knowing they cost so much, and thus mentally they are unable to push the planes to their maximum capacity. They are afraid of any repercussions to their careers if they lose or damage their shiny Su-27s. When the point was made clear to the pilots they won't have their careers jeopardized if they lose their planes, the Su-27 pilots started to lose their timidness.

J-7 pilots were also crack pilots, the first time China put up something like Aggressor squadrons. That truly made a difference in training.

 

[Tam]

all hearsay at this stage,, I'm rather certain that the F-15J would do very well going up against the Flanker,,, from the P-3, P-8 intercepts,, the other team is a little trigger happy to say the least!

Flankers are great, but I'm sure the Taiwanese are told to be laid back, I can guarandamntee you they are not "lighting up Flankers" with their fire control radar,, that is aggressive, and not neighborly for an intercept.. so they won't be doing that, any information to the contrary is hearsay!

If they stir something up on their own, they are likely "on their own",,, they won't do that, but we already have video of aggressive PLAAF intercepts on our P-8 in international airspace... anyway, the Flanker is quite agile, but it really doesn't come into its own without OVT..

Without a video play by play, this is just "cheerleading" for the home team

My bet is that pilots on old planes, even with mid life upgrades, like the F-15J, are told to lay back on the flying and baby the planes due to the aircraft's increasingly limited flight hours left and already stressed aging air frames. This will likely have negative effects in their training.

The ROCAF had lost a few Mirage 2000s over the years, and the pilots are likely ordered to lay back, hold back on their planes, both in intercepts and in training, and that would also affect the pilots' aggressiveness, confidence, experience and skill.

On the other hand, the PLAAF pilots are not told to hold back and told to no longer baby their planes. You lose the jet, we make another. So don't be afraid to play rough.

 

[latenlazy]

The J-11 has the bigger radar, having more transmission power works very well with a larger radar antenna that captures more radiant energy. The J-10 on the other hand, hides its engine intake thanks to the DSI and the shape of its intake take, and should be stealthier.

Close range, will boil down to pilot skill and experience.

Except the J-10B has an ESA radar and the J-11B has a PD radar.

 

[ougoah]

all hearsay at this stage,, I'm rather certain that the F-15J would do very well going up against the Flanker,,, from the P-3, P-8 intercepts,, the other team is a little trigger happy to say the least!

Flankers are great, but I'm sure the Taiwanese are told to be laid back, I can guarandamntee you they are not "lighting up Flankers" with their fire control radar,, that is aggressive, and not neighborly for an intercept.. so they won't be doing that, any information to the contrary is hearsay!

If they stir something up on their own, they are likely "on their own",,, they won't do that, but we already have video of aggressive PLAAF intercepts on our P-8 in international airspace... anyway, the Flanker is quite agile, but it really doesn't come into its own without OVT..

Without a video play by play, this is just "cheerleading" for the home team

Surely it must be clear to you that your statement is filled with bias. I doubt the Chinese side of the story as well, but to say PLAAF intercepts on P-8 and the rest have been aggressive is only revealing of your understandable bias. You can appreciate that from the Chinese perspective, the US presence there is more aggressive. We'll stay away from arguing over the PRC claims since both sides have some valid points, but everything you said here is either complete conjecture or real cheerleading. F-15J is rubbish against flanker on paper. Who knows about what it can actually do and how skilled their pilots are but based on what we know about the Su-30 and J-11 and F-15J, the flankers are better in almost every aspect. Some of these F-15s are 20 to 30 years old now so no surprises about this. F-2s will fare significantly better and should match the best of PLAAF 4th gen. The Japanese send out the F-15s for a reason. They are outdated and there's no risk of PLA getting much from these responses. They're saving the F-2 away from these intercept missions not just for range considerations. Neither country have been acting "neighborly" for some time now so why you think it's impossible for Taiwanese forces to ever use their fire control radars is beyond me. Surely there's still a small chance the RoC can also act aggressively against the Communists like they have many times in the past?

 

[Deino]

Guys ... you are far, far within general aerial combat ... where is it specificly related to PLAAF-Flankers??

 

[siegecrossbow]

all hearsay at this stage,, I'm rather certain that the F-15J would do very well going up against the Flanker,,, from the P-3, P-8 intercepts,, the other team is a little trigger happy to say the least!

Flankers are great, but I'm sure the Taiwanese are told to be laid back, I can guarandamntee you they are not "lighting up Flankers" with their fire control radar,, that is aggressive, and not neighborly for an intercept.. so they won't be doing that, any information to the contrary is hearsay!

If they stir something up on their own, they are likely "on their own",,, they won't do that, but we already have video of aggressive PLAAF intercepts on our P-8 in international airspace... anyway, the Flanker is quite agile, but it really doesn't come into its own without OVT..

Without a video play by play, this is just "cheerleading" for the home team

You have to account for airframe age as well. Some of the F-15Js have been in service since the 80s and 90s and aren't quite up to par any more.