China Flanker Thread II

[plawolf]

Is it really wise for them to produce J-15's with so few tests at sea ? I'm sure that they made a lot of tests on land over the years since that plane was already flying in late august of 2009 thats almost 4 years ago. But still we have only seen that one flight test on sea in late november of last year. And that plane didn't even use a WS-10 engine but a AL-31. I always thought that they would make more at sea tests before they start (small batch) production.

Well its not like they were starting from scratch. The J15 is based on the J11B, with which SAC has had plenty of experience. In addition, they had the Su33 prototype they got from Ukraine to compare notes on, so they would have started from a very advance position and the main issues would have been fine tuning and validation.

It should also be noted that they did not just land J15s on the Liaoning once. They televised one landing exercise, but from the pictures of the Liaoning coming back to port from previous sea trial with tire marks on deck, the very polished and smooth results of the televised landings as well as from interviews, it is beyond a doubt that the PLANAF pilots did far more than one landing on the Liaoning.

Those landings should have given SAC enough data to certify the design if there were not major issues found.

 

[Jeff Head]

It should also be noted that they did not just land J15s on the Liaoning once. They televised one landing exercise, but from the pictures of the Liaoning coming back to port from previous sea trial with tire marks on deck, the very polished and smooth results of the televised landings as well as from interviews, it is beyond a doubt that the PLANAF pilots did far more than one landing on the Liaoning.

Those landings should have given SAC enough data to certify the design if there were not major issues found.

Exactly.

The US produced the first F-18s for example after at sea qualifications. Those involved a few aircraft for a few weeks, doing at sea the things necessary. They then went back, made some changes, and did so again, and were then able to go into production. Any additional problems found out are retrofitted to existing aircraft and included in new porduction.

Then, when the Superhornet came out, which is significantly different than the original Hornet, but still operates and functions in terms of TO and landing like the Hornet, the qualifications were done again...but more smoothly and the aircraft went into production.

It does not take long to find that your aircraft are ready for the carrier or not...particularly as the information regading it (including the types of metal and coating best suited for sea duty) are so readily available.

My issue with the J-15 and the Liaoning right now is not the amount of time they spent qualifying it. It's just now the amount of time since qualifying it that they have not done anything with the carrier and its aircraft off of its deck.

Questions about what they found out during quals and needed to fix. Questions about the production queing of the J-15 relative to other projects and the priorities. Questions about being ready with enough piltos. These are the types of questions that are raised.

But in reality...we simply do not know. They qualed it. It looked good. And now we wait. They will get back to it when they are ready...for whatver reasons they have for the delay.

It sounds like now that they are actually graduating new pilots, have officially created a naval air arm, and that the J-15 is in low rate production. If all of that is indeed so, I expect all of these questions will be moot pretty soon.

 

[Franklin]

Wrong. J-16 use the WS-10, different prototypes of J-15 use AL-31F or WS-10 engines..
View attachment 7808

The WS-10A uses two different nozzles ?

 

[jobjed]

The WS-10A uses two different nozzles ?

How so? The top picture shows the nozzles flared out, the middle picture shows the nozzles tightened.

 

[delft]

Exactly.

The US produced the first F-18s for example after at sea qualifications. Those involved a few aircraft for a few weeks, doing at sea the things necessary. They then went back, made some changes, and did so again, and were then able to go into production. Any additional problems found out are retrofitted to existing aircraft and included in new porduction.

Then, when the Superhornet came out, which is significantly different than the original Hornet, but still operates and functions in terms of TO and landing like the Hornet, the qualifications were done again...but more smoothly and the aircraft went into production.

It does not take long to find that your aircraft are ready for the carrier or not...particularly as the information regading it (including the types of metal and coating best suited for sea duty) are so readily available.

My issue with the J-15 and the Liaoning right now is not the amount of time they spent qualifying it. It's just now the amount of time since qualifying it that they have not done anything with the carrier and its aircraft off of its deck.

Questions about what they found out during quals and needed to fix. Questions about the production queing of the J-15 relative to other projects and the priorities. Questions about being ready with enough piltos. These are the types of questions that are raised.

But in reality...we simply do not know. They qualed it. It looked good. And now we wait. They will get back to it when they are ready...for whatver reasons they have for the delay.

It sounds like now that they are actually graduating new pilots, have officially created a naval air arm, and that the J-15 is in low rate production. If all of that is indeed so, I expect all of these questions will be moot pretty soon.

The Northrop plant was waiting for the F-18 tests at sea before taking the aircraft into production. SAC is in the happy situation of building batches of J-11B's until J-15 is qualified, then build a batch of J-15's and go back to producing one or two batches of J-11B's while awaiting reports on those J-15's. This removes a lot of pressure both from SAC and from PLAN.

 

[franco-russe]

J-15 production images ..


By the way is the number on that J-11BH not more likely 81794 ... , what would both explain these off numbers and indicate - even if contrary to the J-10-conversion plans - that the 25. AR / 9. NDiv received the next J-11BH's !

Deino

Deino was right in reading the number of the J-11B as 81794.

This does mean that they are converting 9 Naval Aviation Division 25 Regiment Lingshui to be the second naval J-11B regiment, after 8 Div 22 Regt Jialai, also in the South Sea Fleet; J-11BS 61 (81691) in escobar’s post # 3333 in the FLANKER thread is for the same regiment.

There was thus reason to doubt the information the 25 Regt would be equipped with J-10A. But it is not excluded that there will be a second naval J-10A regiment, the obvious candidate being 8 Div 24 Regt Jialai, which is PLAN’s only J-7EH regiment.

It is noteworthy that there has been a two-year break after the formation of the fifth J-11B regiment, PLAAF’s 37 Div 111 Regt Korla (now 111 Air Brigade) in 2011.

 

[asif iqbal]

Ok so we have 5 PLAAF and 2 PLAN Regiments of J11B, all except the first use WS10 which means we have

6 x 24 = 144 J11B/S and each has two engines which means 288 WS10 engines

With others on J15, J16, J10B etc probably over 300 units by now

 

[AeroEngineer]

Ok so we have 5 PLAAF and 2 PLAN Regiments of J11B, all except the first use WS10 which means we have

6 x 24 = 144 J11B/S and each has two engines which means 288 WS10 engines

With others on J15, J16, J10B etc probably over 300 units by now

WS-10A is now fully matured and many planes in PLAAF and PLAN are using it. All the J-11B, J-15, J-16 are. In the next year or two. J-10B will be equibed with WS-10A also.

WS-20 is also a WS-10A with large by pass ratio and no afterburner.

________________________________________________

There is a rumor that Chinese stealth bomber H-20 is using a variant of WS-10 as well. Like the American B-2 using F-118 which is a variant of the GE-F-110.

 

[hardware]

WS-10A is now fully matured and many planes in PLAAF and PLAN are using it. All the J-11B, J-15, J-16 are. In the next year or two. J-10B will be equibed with WS-10A also.

WS-20 is also a WS-10A with large by pass ratio and no afterburner.

________________________________________________

There is a rumor that Chinese stealth bomber H-20 is using a variant of WS-10 as well. Like the American B-2 using F-118 which is a variant of the GE-F-110.

it need higher dry thrust

 

[Air Force Brat]

it need higher dry thrust

They all do! "With enough horsepower, you can fly anything", my Dad as we drove around the Super Guppy on the Flight Line at LRAFB, 1971, on its way somewhere, it anchored there overnight, used to Haul Saturn V sections and other "outsized cargo". It was an amazing aircraft, the huge bulbous fuse dwarfing the tiny wings and turbo-props. Brat