China Flanker Thread II

[Blitzo]

Perhabs i dont know really, but tell the name of one turbofan engine that china is producing right now, besides WS-10. Turbojets dont count because they are the stone age of jet engine tech.

There's WS-9 for JH-7As for one. But I think you're missing the point here. The fact that china does not have as many turbofan engines as it would like is part of the problem. This investment here is to boost the entire industry which may show results in the medium term.
It's not for a singular engine program. And WS-10 is so far

Not all j-15 prototypes are equiped with WS-10 and even you admit that shenyang doesnt produce enough WS-10.

So what that not all J-15 prototypes are flying with WS-10? What kind of conclusion about the state of the WS-10 program do you want to derive from that?
Not being able to produce enough of something in that context is stupid. What if SAC produced 800 flanker airframes a year and shenyang liming could not produce 1600 WS-10s? Would you still consider that a problem? The only real way to judge WS-10s production rate is to judge it against the production rate of the other engine program's of other countries.

And yes, I think it's a consensus that their current rate of production is too slow. But that does not support your assertion that this article is referring exclusively to WS-10 anymore than any of your last few posts.

 

[Air Force Brat]

Low rate initial production is just what is necessary, building a small batch of J-15's enough to make sure that you find the mistakes while training the first small batch of carrier aviators. It will likely be half or two third of the proposed equipment of CV-16. After the next batch of J-11B's an ordinary batch of J-15's might follow. All in all the total production of J-15's will be small, even if the aircraft will equip the first three carriers. And that of course depends on the building rate of the carriers and the time the next carrier fighter aircraft will be available.

Well I have stated all along that the J-15 is in LRIP, but I see NO reason why production will not ramp up to produce as many J-15s as are needed to equip the Liaoning, after that maybe a break for J-11bs, but certainly not before that, at least 12, more likely 24, the J-15 and J-15S are necessities at this stage----J-11Bs are not as high on the priority list IMHO? Brat

 

[escobar]

J-11B with PL-12s AAM

 

[siegecrossbow]

My opinion is that although the WS-10 engines are useable, they are far from mature. As of the most recent Golden Helmet exercises the J-11Bs with Taihang engines still didn't perform as well as their AL-31 equipped counterparts.

 

[kroko]

There's WS-9 for JH-7As for one.

WS-9 is not a domestic engine. Its a license-built version of a 50-year old british engine. what else?

Not being able to produce enough of something in that context is stupid. What if SAC produced 800 flanker airframes a year and shenyang liming could not produce 1600 WS-10s? Would you still consider that a problem? The only real way to judge WS-10s production rate is to judge it against the production rate of the other engine program's of other countries.

I think i should have included more of the xinhua article. it gives a better context.

"At present, China's aircraft engine design and manufacturing have weak links in terms of materials, key parts, manufacturing equipment, processing precision and measurements," according to another source with the BUAA who is also involved in the project.

Although the country is capable of producing aircraft engines, product performance is inadequate and mass production cannot be realized, the second source with the BUAA said.

Its really not a question of the amount of engines being built (not enough lines of prodution), but rather that china has technological problems producing engines in large scale.

 

[Lion]

WS-9 is not a domestic engine. Its a license-built version of a 50-year old british engine. what else?

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According to Ta Kung Pao, China began research on the WS-15 Qinling-2 Turbofan in 1998. The Qinling-2 Turbofan is an improvement on the WS-9 turbofan, with increased pre-heating temperatures on the turbines and reduced weight for greater efficiency. Tests on the Qinling-2 Turbofan in October 2008 were successful. It is now technically competitive to the late M53-P2 engine from France.

I didn't know France M53-P2 is a 50 years old engine?

 

[Lion]

My opinion is that although the WS-10 engines are useable, they are far from mature. As of the most recent Golden Helmet exercises the J-11Bs with Taihang engines still didn't perform as well as their AL-31 equipped counterparts.

I don't think pilot performance is link with the engine. Or probably those J-11B pilot with WS-10 are newer than the J-11B with Al-31 engine.

 

[escobar]

My opinion is that although the WS-10 engines are useable, they are far from mature. As of the most recent Golden Helmet exercises the J-11Bs with Taihang engines still didn't perform as well as their AL-31 equipped counterparts.

As said by Sun Cong, the deputy chief engineer of AVIC : "At present, the WS-10 engine has reached a usable state, but to achieve the ideal state, there is some work needs to be done"

 

[Lion]

As said by Sun Cong, the deputy chief engineer of AVIC : "At present, the WS-10 engine has reached a usable state, but to achieve the ideal state, there is some work needs to be done"

What do he means by ideal state? Higher thrust? More life span? Better reliability? It's hard to define what does he means by ideal state...

 

[siegecrossbow]

What do he means by ideal state? Higher thrust? More life span? Better reliability? It's hard to define what does he means by ideal state...

Thrust-wise baseline WS-10 is on-par with AL-31. I think Sun Cong was referring to engine reliability. Keep in mind that the WS-10 used for the J-15 will be a modified variant since it will have to deal with higher salinity of the naval environment.