China Flanker Thread II

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kyuryu

Junior Member
The J-31 will take time to mature, perhaps 7-14 years, plus today`s aerospace industry requieres international efforts.

At the same time with the full-rate production in Moscow, Klimov JSC in St. Petersburg continues to refine the RD-33MK and RD-93. According to Klimov, the company’s jet engine priorities are the development of the modified RD-93MA with the thrust enhanced to 9,300 kgf for a foreign customer and the development of the upgraded RD-33MKM with a thrust of 9,500 kgf for the MiG corporation.

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To be honest China will soldier for at least 10 years with J-15/Su-33 and i do not know who is that customer it could be india but it could also China.
If China it might be for J-31, if that is the case the J-31 could use RD-33 for several years

But i do not think J-15/Su-33 will fly in the next 5 years along side the J-31 from the chinese carrier

It's possible the up-rated (9500 kg-class Klimov) is for the J-31, but I would have thought that the more likely candidate would be future models of the JF-17, as there is already an established precedent for the re-exporting of earlier versions of their engines to Pakistan. I would imagine that by the time the J-31 is production ready and is achieving IOC, that SAC would have confidently mastered production of a 9500 kg-class turbofan to ensure future export sales with a guaranteed single source logistical support over the entire lifetime of the aircraft.

If the past 15 years has showed anything, the Chinese are a fast learning bunch, who are often-times far more pragmatic in their approach and strategic in it's longer term vision than many (most) Western commentators have given them credit for.

Much is made in various threads of SDF of China's historic lack of mid-high thrust military turbofan technology, but surely none of us realistically believe this is going to be a systemic, ongoing and long term issue for the Chinese military-industrial complex? By the time the J-20 / J-31 reach IOC in +5 years, I have full confidence that these design and production ramp-up bottlenecks will have been fully resolved.
 

Lion

Senior Member
Liming is pushing its goal to stabilize WS-10 engine annual production of 120 units.

By the way, a report said that Russia wanted to repay a debts of 4-500 million Swiss Franks, owed by the former Soviet Union, with Ka helicopters. China declined. Then the sale of Su-35's stories came up. Russians wanted $85 million a piece. Of Course, China said: "No!" Currently, the asking price is $65 million.

I think is bull... Russia has so many oil. Why would china settle for unwanted aircraft for debt?
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Liming is pushing its goal to stabilize WS-10 engine annual production of 120 units.

By the way, a report said that Russia wanted to repay a debts of 4-500 million Swiss Franks, owed by the former Soviet Union, with Ka helicopters. China declined. Then the sale of Su-35's stories came up. Russians wanted $85 million a piece. Of Course, China said: "No!" Currently, the asking price is $65 million.

Good news I agree with Kyuryu eventually this bottle neck will resolve itself over time . Let face it China is new in this industry it take time for the supplier to institute quality control and develop cadre that are conversant with the practice of modern quality control.

It is natural since China start from the scratch and there is no equivalent civilian industry unlike in shipping or electronics.

But 120 a year is nothing to sneer at that mean 2 regiments of J 11B, J 15 and J 16 assuming they use 20 for spare
 
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A.Man

Major
金头盔(11名)

许利强:1师1团,歼-11B
袁 星
陆冬辉:3师8团,歼-10
郑 平
徐卫军
孙丰海:18师54团,SU-30MKK
赵庆东:18师54团,SU-30MKK
张江涛:19师55团,歼-11
王玉林:上海基地85旅,SU-30MKK
薛 勇:上海基地85旅,SU-30MKK
蒋佳冀:33师98团,歼-11

2012 Gold Helmet (11) Winners & Their Types of Fighters
(More Than Few From Flanker Blood Line)

Xu Liqiang: 1st Division 1 Regiment, J-11B
Yuan Xing

Lu Donghui: 3d Division 8 Regiment, J-10
Zheng Ping
Wei-Jun Xu

Sun Fenghai: 18th Division 54 Regiment, SU-30MKK
Zhao Qingdong: 18th division 54 Regiment, SU-30MKK

Zhang Jiangtao: 19th Division 55 Regiment, J -11

Yulin Wang: Shanghai Base, 85th Brigade, SU-30MKK
Xue Yong: Shanghai Base, 85th Brigade, SU-30MKK

Jiang Jia Ji: 33th division 98 regiment, J-11

2012空战对抗检验性考核优胜单位

1团(11B)、4团(8DF)、8团(10)、42(团7E)、54团(30)、55团(11)。

2012 Air Combat confrontation Assessment winning unit (Winning unit for same type of aircraft)

1st Regiment of 1st Dev. (J-11B)
4th regiment of 2nd Div. (J-8DF)
8th regiment of 3d Div. (J-10)
42th Regiment of 14th Div. (J-7E)
54th Regiment of 18th Div. (Su-30)
55th Regiment of 19th Div. (J-11).
 
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Subedei

Banned Idiot
2012 Gold Helmet (11) Winners & Their Types of Fighters (More Than Few From Flanker Blood Line)

interesting distribution, platform-wise. no clear dominance by type.

it does looks like that 2d seat is starting to show some dividends, though.

anyone got dope on the significance of the winning units?
 
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hardware

Banned Idiot
I don't know how reliable is this article . Maybe some one can translate it better. But seem like they have problem with component suppliers as I suspect . That is what held back the production of WS 10A and J11 B

俄称歼11B首次装备海航 发动机生产跟不上
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2012年09月18日 09:31 环球网
资料图:网上流传的歼11B战斗机三视图 资料图:网上流传的歼11B战斗机三视图

  【环球网综合报道】据俄罗斯“潜望镜2”网站9月14日报道,中国航空工业消息人士日前在接受《汉和亚洲防务》杂志采访时透露,中国首批海军版歼-11B/BS歼击机已于2011年装备解放军海军航空兵第8师,而且全部配备国产太行发动机。与此同时,解放军空军第37师去年也装备了一批同型号歼击机。

  据中国航空工业消息人士透露,这是解放军海军航空兵装备的首批歼-11B/BS歼击机。今后歼-11B/BS歼击机将全部配备国产太行发动机。目前只有正在服役的首批歼-11B才使用俄罗斯AL-31F发动机。当前中国在歼-11B装备方面的最大困难就是航空发动机及其部件的供应跟不上歼击机的生产节奏。根据目前的生产计划,歼-11B/BS歼击机每年最大生厂量为24架,只够装备一个团,因此中国海军和空军正在就新型歼-11B/BS战斗机的分配问题展开激烈争论。根据汉和掌握的消息,目前中国空军和海军在歼-11B/BS歼击机分配方面采取平分原则,即每年各装备8到12架。这意味着,解放军空军和海军航空兵至少需要两年时间才能换装一个团,之后还将逐步改编为旅。

  中国航空工业消息人士指出,歼-11B歼击机安装机械扫描雷达,将来计划在歼-11/16/15上安装有源相控阵雷达。中国已经用了8年多的时间研制机载有源相控阵雷达,其造价不高,性能先进,而且雷达重量甚至低于俄罗斯产品。目前歼-10B歼击机使用的无源相控阵雷达,这也证实了汉和有关中国歼-10B机载雷达是俄制相控阵雷达仿制品的推测,而且这些观察已经得到了其他渠道的确认。不久前北京博物馆开设了机载无线电电子设备展厅,非常清楚地表明歼-10B配备无源相控阵雷达。据悉,除了国产太行发动机之外,中国歼-11B还安装了国产新型航电设备和座舱显示器。(编译:林海)

  相关报道:

Russia said the F-11B equipment HNA engine production can not keep up for the first time
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2012 09 18 09:31 Global Network
Figure: F-11B fighter view the spread of the Internet Data Figure: F-11B fighter circulated on the Internet three views

[World Wide Web Roundup According to Russia's "periscope" website reported on September 14, China's aviation industry sources recently revealed in an interview with the Chinese and Asian Defense magazine, the first batch of Chinese naval version F--11B/BS fighter 8 Division of the equipment of the PLA Naval Air Force in 2011, and all equipped with domestic Taihang engine. At the same time, the 37th Division of the People's Liberation Army Air Force also equipped with a number of fighter aircraft of the same model.

According to sources of China's aviation industry, which is the People's Liberation Army Naval Air Force equipment first batch the F--11B/BS fighter. In the future fighter F -11B/BS will all with domestic Taihang engine. The first batch of F-11B was only in service with the Russian AL-31F engine. Equipment in the F-11B greatest difficulty is the aero-engine and its parts supply can not keep up the pace of production of the fighter. F -11B/BS fighter based on the current production plan, the annual maximum amount of raw plant 24, only enough to equip a regiment, so the Chinese navy and air force is a fierce debate on the allocation of the the new J -11B/BS fighter. According to Han and grasp the message, the Chinese Air Force and Navy in the distribution of F -11B/BS fighter take bisection principle, each equipped with 8-12 year. This means that the People's Liberation Army Air Force and naval aviation needs at least two years in order to dress up a group, and then will gradually adapted for the journey.

China Aviation Industry sources pointed out that the F-11B fighter install mechanical scanning radar, future plans active phased array radar installed on F -11/16/15. China has spent 8 years developing airborne active phased array radar, its cost is not high, state-of-the-art performance, and the radar weight even lower than the Russian product. F-10B fighter using passive phased array radar, which also confirmed the Han and the Chinese J-10B airborne radar is a Russian-made imitation of the phased array radar speculation, and these observations have been confirmed by other channels . Beijing Museum recently opened airborne radio electronic equipment showroom, very clear that the F-10B is equipped with passive phased array radar. It is reported that, in addition to the domestic Taihang engine, F-11B also installed domestic new avionics and cockpit displays. (Compile: woodlands)

the translation indicated the hardware or a prototype model already exist,the problem may be solfware.
problem mirror image that of US and european AESa program.developing a solfware are far more complicate and expensive than hardware.
transaltion claim that PESA for J-10B is base on russian design,likely is mosquit or Mosquito PESA radar, 2 radar set were sold to china in 2004.and may have use a base for J-10B PESA program.
 
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Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Prototype 551 with one AL-31F + one WS-10H !!!

... so much for both engines are not interchangeable on the latest Flanker versions .... and as such why not n the latest J-10B too ? :p

Deino
 

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In4ser

Junior Member
I think is bull... Russia has so many oil. Why would china settle for unwanted aircraft for debt?
Possible explanations are cheaper procurement costs for Su-35s (for manufacturing in bulk), gives jobs and experience to aerospace industry. Selling the Chinese military equipment gives them at least some face, rather than another appearing to be another appendage used for China like Africa or Middle East.
 

Quickie

Colonel
Prototype 551 with one AL-31F + one WS-10H !!!

... so much for both engines are not interchangeable on the latest Flanker versions .... and as such why not n the latest J-10B too ? :p

Deino

It's always possible to design the 2 aircraft's aft fuselage structure to accomodate both engines. The holding brackets for the 2 type of engines will necessary be different but they should have no problem fitting into the aft fuselage if they are designed to do just that to begin with.

But the same cannot be said for the older aircraft and, even production aircraft, since doing so may impose a penalty on the aircraft, for example an increase in the weight of the structure.

Come to think of it, in the case of the production, or even the prototypes, J-15, it's quite likely the the aft structure is already optimised for the WS-10H engine without necessating the use of a holding bracket.
 
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Engineer

Major
Prototype 551 with one AL-31F + one WS-10H !!!

... so much for both engines are not interchangeable on the latest Flanker versions .... and as such why not n the latest J-10B too ? :p

Deino

It's just a prototype built to accommodate both types of engine. It doesn't mean the aircraft can use both engines interchangeably. They did a similar thing with J-11 as well:
VD7wO.jpg

Tags: China; J-11; AL-31F; WS-10; imgur;
 
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