China Flanker Thread II

[MiG-29]

Let me put you into place with a simple fact. AL-31FP powers the Su-30MKI in India, as explained on

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:


WS-10A has a quoted thrust of 132kN. AL-31F and AL-31FP only have 125kN according to

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, and these are the engines that power exported Flankers. Export Flankers are not using AL-31FM1. In other words, when comparing based on thrust alone, J-11B has more power than exported Flankers. Simple as that.

Your assertion that J-11B is less powerful than Flankers outside of China remains nothing more than a typical fairy tale, and is a result of your inability to accept the simple fact that China is about to exceed Russia in aerospace technologies.

It is true that AL-31FM1 will upgrade Su-27 in the Russian Air Force, resulting in Su-27SM. However, these aircraft have old air frame which does not use as much composite materials, thus heavier than J-11B. The same goes for Su-33 versus J-15 comparison, with the latter enjoys a lighter airframe with more composite materials. In other words, thrust-to-weight ratio of Su-27SM would still likely to be inferior to Chinese Flanker variants.

The Russian Air Force will receive the first six Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E multirole fighter jets by the end of 2012, spokesman Col. Vladimir Drik said on Monday

of course your reading ability is very limited, Russia now is deploying 117S operational in the RuAF on board of Su-35s

 

[MiG-29]

The reality is that China does not purchase Russian engines except for baseline AL-31F and AL31FN. For engines with higher thrust, China turns to WS-10A to power new build Flankers.

It should be noted why Russia is unwilling to sell China a few engines or Su-35. The reason we commonly hear is fear of reverse-engineering. However, reverse-engineering is as difficult as designing and building something from scratch, and is only possible because China's own aerospace technology matches that of Russia. In other words, Russia's fear illustrates its recognition of China's capabilities in the aerospace sector, contradicting your fairy tales that China is still reliant on Russia.

Show me the money, show me a J-11B with thrust vectoring and supercruise ability and if you can not understand arithmetic

14500kg thrust is higher yield than 132kn


MiG-35s have AESA radar

 

[Engineer]

Show me the money, show me a J-11B with thrust vectoring and supercruise ability and if you can not understand arithmetic

14500kg thrust is higher yield than 132kn


MiG-35s have AESA radar

I will put you into place with a simple reality: it does not matter how great you think Su-35 is, as those are merely your opinions and do not worth the keyboard you are typing on. China is simply not purchasing Su-35 for its TVC or supercruise capability.

You will be mistaken if you assume China hasn't been offered any AL-31 variants with TVN in the past. For example, the picture below shows an AL-31FN engine with a TVN. It is obviously meant for China which is the only operator of the FN variant. However, China didn't purchase any. That's a sign of lack of interest for you.

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is the original link.

TVC remains nothing more than a hype so far, as evident by the lack of commitment displayed by air forces around the world. Some may argue it is due to funding issue, but at the end of the day it all comes down to whether a piece of equipment is worthwhile. An item is expensive because it is not worthwhile, as simple as that. The price tag for an AESA radar is quite high too, yet that does not stop air forces around the world from flocking to equip their fighters with one.

As far as supercruise is concerned, there is little reason why China needs a Flanker to perform such a feat when J-20 will be able to so. You can make comparison between J-11B vs. Su-35 all day, because that's all you could do. However, that isn't going to alter the fact that J-20 is superior to Su-35 in aerodynamics, avionics, and engine. China has little needs to purchase an inferior Russian product that doesn't work with the rest of Chinese systems.

As for AESA radar, China has far more experience designing, manufacturing, and operating one than Russia does. There is also little needs for China to acquiring an AESA radar from Russia, especially when Russian's system isn't compatible with Chinese weapons.

 

[Engineer]

The Russian Air Force will receive the first six Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E multirole fighter jets by the end of 2012, spokesman Col. Vladimir Drik said on Monday

of course your reading ability is very limited, Russia now is deploying 117S operational in the RuAF on board of Su-35s

You obviously have trouble comprehending basic English.

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is NPO's own website on AL-31F and AL-31FP. At the bottom of the page is also a table containing specification, which I have attached for your convenient:

It clearly states the maximum thrust of AL-31F and AL-31FP is 125kN. These two engines are currently powering Flankers worldwide. Comparing the maximum thrust of the two AL-31 variants and WS-10A, it is obvious that the latter has more thrust. To put it simply, J-11B has more power than Su-27 and Su-30 currently flying worldwide. Your assertion that all J-11B cannot out power Flankers outside of China remains nothing more than a fairy tale.

Su-35 and 117S engines both have no export customers. Your attempt in using the two in generalizing all Flankers outside of China are better than J-11B is called

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, and reflects your desperate attempt to paint China to be behind so as to put Russia's own aerospace industry in a better light.

 

[MiG-29]

You obviously have trouble comprehending basic English.

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is NPO's own website on AL-31F and AL-31FP. At the bottom of the page is also a table containing specification, which I have attached for your convenient:

It clearly states the maximum thrust of AL-31F and AL-31FP is 125kN. These two engines are currently powering Flankers worldwide. Comparing the maximum thrust of the two AL-31 variants and WS-10A, it is obvious that the latter has more thrust. To put it simply, J-11B has more power than Su-27 and Su-30 currently flying worldwide. Your assertion that all J-11B cannot out power Flankers outside of China remains nothing more than a fairy tale.

Su-35 and 117S engines both have no export customers. Your attempt in using the two in generalizing all Flankers outside of China are better than J-11B is called

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, and reflects your desperate attempt to paint China to be behind so as to put Russia's own aerospace industry in a better light.

Russia is not China, Russia is outside China =foreign country


Russia will have by 2020 90 Su-35, now it has 2-3 prototypes and few serial production aircraft by december 2012 6 will be delivered to the RuAF

news by the Russian defence ministry
Су-35 должен стать основным истребителем ВВС России. До 2020 г. Военно-воздушные силы РФ планируют закупить около 90 этих новейших машин.

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The Su-35 is planned to surpass Rafale and Eurofighter type aircraft and give a minimun of deterrance against F-35 can it do it?
probably yes

ask your self by 2015 can J-11B match Eurofighter`s supercruise ability?


now ?


What ever you say J-11B closest Russian counterpart is Su-30M, same is J-16.

They are good jets, but still the ultimate Flanker is Su-35

 

[Engineer]

Russia is not China, Russia is outside China =foreign country

Russia is not the only country outside of China, and is not the only country operating Flankers aside from China.

Russia will have by 2020 90 Su-35, now it has 2-3 prototypes and few serial production aircraft by december 2012 6 will be delivered to the RuAF


Су-35 должен стать основным истребителем ВВС России. До 2020 г. Военно-воздушные силы РФ планируют закупить около 90 этих новейших машин.

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The Su-35 is planned to surpass Rafale and Eurofighter type aircraft and give a minimun of deterrance against F-35 can it do it?


ask your self by 2015 can J-11B match Eurofighter`s supercruise ability?


now ?


What ever you say J-11B closest Russian counterpart is Su-30M, same is J-16.

They are good jets, but still the ultimate Flanker is Su-35

By 2020, J-20 would already be in service for two years by current projection. With this aircraft just a few years away from introduction into PLAAF, there is no reason for China to acquire the inferior Su-35. For the same reason, there is little reason for China to add supercruise ability to J-11B, as front line duties will eventually fell onto J-20.

It does not matter how you think Su-35 is superior, as that is just your opinion. China does not share your view as it is not acquiring any of the aircraft, and that is a fact.

 

[drunkmunky]

One moment you're talking about existing AL-31 engines. next you're talking about brand new overhaul engines. then you're talking about future su-35's with tvc.

What are you trying to argue? It sounds like you want us to feel that Russia is superior, and your obviously barking up the wrong tree.

 

[A.Man]

Russia is not China, Russia is outside China =foreign country


They are good jets, but still the ultimate Flanker is Su-35

It is 2012, I hope Russia will show Su-35 there!

[video]http://www.56.com/u51/v_NzE5OTcwNjQ.html#st=0&fromoutpvid=NzE5OTcwNjQ&[/video]

 

[MiG-29]

Russia is not the only country outside of China, and is not the only country operating Flankers aside from China.


By 2020, J-20 would already be in service for two years by current projection. With this aircraft just a few years away from introduction into PLAAF, there is no reason for China to acquire the inferior Su-35. For the same reason, there is little reason for China to add supercruise ability to J-11B, as front line duties will eventually fell onto J-20.

It does not matter how you think Su-35 is superior, as that is just your opinion. China does not share your view as it is not acquiring any of the aircraft, and that is a fact.

Look this is not a competition, niether you are the PLAAF, your opinions as all of us are just opinions.

I am not the RuAF, niether you the PLAAF, niether i am interfax or you shenyang.


Your opinions are like mine, we are just saying why we do think Russia might sell Su-35 to China or not.


The future is always uncertain, unless you claim to be a prophet.


If it happens as reported in several media news outlets, well is understandable.

If it does not, Sukhoi still will sell Su-35s to the RuAF and other customers.

I do not care if you think TVC nozzles are worthed or not, if Su-35 can fill its task well or not.


The situation is the most advanced Flanker in the world you like it or not you believe it or not still is Russian, and its the Su-35 powered by 117S.

J-11B and J-16 are still good aircraft, but are less advanced and iimpressive in performance and very likely radar too.

 

[MiG-29]

One moment you're talking about existing AL-31 engines. next you're talking about brand new overhaul engines. then you're talking about future su-35's with tvc.

What are you trying to argue? It sounds like you want us to feel that Russia is superior, and your obviously barking up the wrong tree.

barking to who? can you be a little more polite, my argument was at least up to what i know the most advanced flankers in the world are Su-34 and Su-35, and since China has not shown a 117 engine type is probable they want to buy the 117 engine but since China stopped the Su-27/J-11 license and Russia felt it was against its interests the Russians are only willing to sell 117 in large numbers and in Su-35s because if China would use it to in 5-10 years copy it Russia my lose markets to Chinese aircraft.

Everything is business, Russia today has more powerful engines than 117S, they want to milk out all the money the can from Su-35 and 117S, simply like that bussiness