China Flanker Thread II

[MiG-29]

First of all I did not bash You as a "Russian Fan-boy" but if You feel like one, then I apologize.

Anyway, the problem is not that we both don't have the same opinion and that I can't repect that You to have a different one to mine ... it's Your persistance: You can not only tell us once what You think since again each time anyone repeats to Your "toooooooooo-looooooong" posts, Your answers they are getting looooooonger and looooooooooonger.

We all know what You think to some topics and it's more than fine how You add links, sources and what-ever to prof Your claim, but in the end it's up to each other here to decide what to think.

As such - and here I speak for me myself - I accept Your different opinion, but I get angry to read all Your posts over and over again; You won't change the opinion of others with that altitude nor will anyone we persuaded by the number of additional links nor the number of words You post. Honestly You will even more persuade if You too accept the other's opinions.

Just keep it simple and clear ...

Deino

To be honest i do not understand what do you mean, up to what i understand, and this is my personal opinion, i add links for a simple reason, if i will have an opinion i like to based upon the most reliable baisis, not just my personal opinions.
But here i will be honest, in any forum you have different opinions, for example here you have a common opinion that Su-35 was never offered, my opinion differs.

And i will be honest i do not think i am breaking any forum rule by having my own opinion as long as i am respectful.

So i do not think you should get angry at me as long i am respecful, i just think you have different interests than me, you might be interested in news, pictures and perhaps confirmed reports, which is fine with me, however an opinion does not go against the forum purposes.

But i think you should not say Russian links are unreliable, i have found excellent Russian links as i have found ones which are not good too.

This news about the Su-35 being or not being purchased by China, should not makes angry at each other, niether claim we know all, only the Russian and Chinese government in their military cooperation know what really did happen.

An in fact the statement given by the Chinese defence ministry, was friendly towards Russia.

 

[Player99]

An in fact the statement given by the Chinese defence ministry, was friendly towards Russia.

I think most of us agree with you on this. The countries have been partners in many areas, economically, millitarily, and politically. Other than the few genuinely ignorant fanboys and those who are not ignorant but just get caught in emotions, the rest of us Chinese know and acknowledge the help and assistance from the former Soviet Union in the past and the Russians (and the Ukrainians) thereafter.

 

[70092]

Yes, I neve believed in any russian garbage news like that.

FC-1 looks like MiG-29? J-10 is a copy of Su-27? And dont forget the shameless russians claims J-20 is a copy of MiG-1.44 despite of the fact actually MiG-1.44 looks like exactly a poor man's version of China's 1960s-era J-9VI-2.

So many garbage news from russia, really make me wonder, if Russian have a HUGE complexity there, being it inferiority complexity, superiority complexity, or most likely, both.

---------- Post added at 03:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 PM ----------

Simply there is not any sources from China even remotely confirm China is even remotely interested in any garbage russian news suggested... Su-33/35 MiG-29/31 Tu-22, T-80MBT, the list is too long to be ignored.

Actually there is a official source regarding how Chinese officials in AVIC/PLAAF regarding the current status of Russian Aviation technique-levels:

According to a major general from PLA, Dai Xu, mentioned, in later 1990s, Russia offer the deal to China to co-develop the 5th generation fighter laterly evolved into PAK-FA.

And Chinese, after reviewed the Russian's PAK-FA proposal, rejected that offer, citing the fact that PAK-FA is not a real 5th generation fighter but merely a Su-27's varation, and thus lacks the capability to handle F-22, which is the primary oppoennts for PLAAF to deal with.

So you can see, in later 1990s, China was not impressed by Russia's most top-notch aviation techs.

Also, there are so many official news in China, reporting how J-10A raped Su-27/Su-30, one reported 2 J-10 vs 4 Su-27 and the score is 4:0, the other news reported another skirmish where 1 J-10 shot down 4 Su-27s and get 4:0,
there is also some 1 on 1 test excresies between J-10 and Su-27, and J-10 won with 8:1.

As for Su-30, there is a 6 J-10 vs 6 Su-30 skirmish, the score is 5:0 with the only suriviving Su-30 being driven by the best Su-30 pilot in PLA, and he surivied the hunt just very narrowly.

So you can understand why China shut down the Su-27 liscence production line so early, its not just a copy-right thing, it is that without some major upgrade of Su-27 with China's hardware, Su-27 become a waste of resources.

As simple as that, China has not buy any Russian fighters laterly, it is not BECAUSE the bullshit nonsense about how Russia want to protect they copy-right and dont want to sell China their fighters, it is that CHINA SIMPLY DONT WANT THEM, learn to live with it.

but of cause you will never hear any of these Chinese-side news from Russians's mouth, all you get from Russia is Su-27 is best, J-10 is a copy of Su-27 or FC-1 is a copy of MiG-29 to only show you what kind of joke russians are.

Russians sure have some huge complexity and its really very very annoying, to say the least.

 

[MiG-29]

Yes, I neve believed in any russian garbage news like that.

FC-1 looks like MiG-29? J-10 is a copy of Su-27? And dont forget the shameless russians claims J-20 is a copy of MiG-1.44 despite of the fact actually MiG-1.44 looks like exactly a poor man's version of China's 1960s-era J-9VI-2.

So many garbage news from russia, really make me wonder, if Russian have a HUGE complexity there, being it inferiority complexity, superiority complexity, or most likely, both.

---------- Post added at 03:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 PM ----------

Simply there is not any sources from China even remotely confirm China is even remotely interested in any garbage russian news suggested... Su-33/35 MiG-29/31 Tu-22, T-80MBT, the list is too long to be ignored.

Actually there is a official source regarding how Chinese officials in AVIC/PLAAF regarding the current status of Russian Aviation technique-levels:

According to a major general from PLA, Dai Xu, mentioned, in later 1990s, Russia offer the deal to China to co-develop the 5th generation fighter laterly evolved into PAK-FA.

And Chinese, after reviewed the Russian's PAK-FA proposal, rejected that offer, citing the fact that PAK-FA is not a real 5th generation fighter but merely a Su-27's varation, and thus lacks the capability to handle F-22, which is the primary oppoennts for PLAAF to deal with.

So you can see, in later 1990s, China was not impressed by Russia's most top-notch aviation techs.

Also, there are so many official news in China, reporting how J-10A raped Su-27/Su-30, one reported 2 J-10 vs 4 Su-27 and the score is 4:0, the other news reported another skirmish where 1 J-10 shot down 4 Su-27s and get 4:0,
there is also some 1 on 1 test excresies between J-10 and Su-27, and J-10 won with 8:1.

As for Su-30, there is a 6 J-10 vs 6 Su-30 skirmish, the score is 5:0 with the only suriviving Su-30 being driven by the best Su-30 pilot in PLA, and he surivied the hunt just very narrowly.

So you can understand why China shut down the Su-27 liscence production line so early, its not just a copy-right thing, it is that without some major upgrade of Su-27 with China's hardware, Su-27 become a waste of resources.

As simple as that, China has not buy any Russian fighters laterly, it is not BECAUSE the bullshit nonsense about how Russia want to protect they copy-right and dont want to sell China their fighters, it is that CHINA SIMPLY DONT WANT THEM, learn to live with it.

but of cause you will never hear any of these Chinese-side news from Russians's mouth, all you get from Russia is Su-27 is best, J-10 is a copy of Su-27 or FC-1 is a copy of MiG-29 to only show you what kind of joke russians are.

Russians sure have some huge complexity and its really very very annoying, to say the least.

this is the type of post i do not like,according to the forum rules threads containing X versus Y are not allowed,
So you post a clearly Russian aviation`s versus China`s aviation reply.

I am sure many do not even feel offence here, specially since this posty contains bad words.

Well i want to ask if i am not allowed to reply to this and make an "off topic" thread why do you allow this type of post where people come here basicly with a flag waving attitude?

Should not we talk in a nice manner?

Should not avoid the Russian aviation versus Chinese aviation thread? PAKFA versus J-20.

here we have a post comparing J-10 versus Su-27 clearly.

Or is it okay to reply to this with Russian aviation yadayada yada


I wonder why this type of post have even approval marks of people who like them?

Is not hypocritical if i answer in the opposite way and you declare me off topic?

I think this type of post should be deleted, i have family in Russia and i feel offended by the rethoric of this post.
(By the way to those who think i do not have Chinese family yes i do have family of Chinese origin, my cousins have chinese blood, my mother`s brother married a chinese lady, we in latin america are multiethnic)

 

[Maggern]

this is the type of post i do not like,according to the forum rules threads containing X versus Y are not allowed,
So you post a clearly Russian aviation`s versus China`s aviation reply.

I am sure many do not even feel offence here, specially since this posty contains bad words.

Well i want to ask if i am not allowed to reply to this and make an "off topic" thread why do you allow this type of post where people come here basicly with a flag waving attitude?

Should not we talk in a nice manner?

Should not avoid the Russian aviation versus Chinese aviation thread? PAKFA versus J-20.

here we have a post comparing J-10 versus Su-27 clearly.

Or is it okay to reply to this with Russian aviation yadayada yada


I wonder why this type of post have even approval marks of people who like them?

Is not hypocritical if i answer in the opposite way and you declare me off topic?

I think this type of post should be deleted, i have family in Russia and i feel offended by the rethoric of this post.
(By the way to those who think i do not have Chinese family yes i do have family of Chinese origin, my cousins have chinese blood, my mother`s brother married a chinese lady, we in latin america are multiethnic)

Hey man, you know there's a button called "report post", where you can write your problems with any particular post directly to the mods. Please don't clutter this thread with opinions on how the forum should be run.

 

[Hyperwarp]

To MiG-29 :

I agree with Maggern. Just use the "report post" button at the lower left hand corner of the post.

 

[Blitzo]

Although 70092 does bring up interesting points wrt both J-10 vs flanker exercises and the rumored overtures Russia made to china on PAK FA cooperation.

Sure X vs Y threads aren't allowed (at least that's enforced to the best degree) but mentioning results of supposed exercises and supposed facts on whether china wanted to go with PAK FA or not should be fair, even if it is off topic to the thread subject. But honestly I think we're all a little exasperated at this latest round from the russian media, and while I dissapprove of that part about russians superiority, complexity or whatever, the rest, or at least the bottom line, I wholly support.

Sure Mig, if you made a post completely opposite we'd probably call you a troll or whatever. But that's the nature of forums. If I posted what 70092 wrote over on key forums I'd probably get labelled a troll as well. It depends on the majority of the population. Good thing is that usually there aren't too many situations where we get angry (but informative) posts like that.

 

[MiG-29]

Hey man, you know there's a button called "report post", where you can write your problems with any particular post directly to the mods. Please don't clutter this thread with opinions on how the forum should be run.

The Forum rules say no comparation or wave flagging, all should we follow the rules, its hypocritical to apply the rules only to some offenders so what i am saying if you claim i clutter the thread also his remarks are offensive to some nationalities.

Up to what i have understand, we suppose to discuss any aircraft only from the technical aspect or news any tone in which we compare in order to make flag waving is frown upon.

So i am not replying to a post in which i know it is a bait, but i remark the fact that obviously if i would had posted comparing too, many would have said i am i am off topic but would not mind his remarks.

---------- Post added at 12:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 AM ----------

Although 70092 does bring up interesting points wrt both J-10 vs flanker exercises and the rumored overtures Russia made to china on PAK FA cooperation.

Sure X vs Y threads aren't allowed (at least that's enforced to the best degree) but mentioning results of supposed exercises and supposed facts on whether china wanted to go with PAK FA or not should be fair, even if it is off topic to the thread subject. But honestly I think we're all a little exasperated at this latest round from the russian media, and while I dissapprove of that part about russians superiority, complexity or whatever, the rest, or at least the bottom line, I wholly support.

Sure Mig, if you made a post completely opposite we'd probably call you a troll or whatever. But that's the nature of forums. If I posted what 70092 wrote over on key forums I'd probably get labelled a troll as well. It depends on the majority of the population. Good thing is that usually there aren't too many situations where we get angry (but informative) posts like that.

forum rules say no X versus y, we are to follow rules, is not a matter of population but of honesty, we are to discuss Chinese flankers upon no comparing against other jets, specially his remarks is comparing PAKFA versus J-20 and i remember they told me i should not do that, so why he is different? rules apply to all

 

[escobar]

 

[siegecrossbow]

J-11BS had an accident recently due to faulty flight controls. The pilots were able to land safely due to quick thinking. The air-frame had to take 9.36 Gs during the maneuver.

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