China Flanker Thread II

[Speeder]

It's allover the news now, some of which are mainstream. The day when China buys it, is the day that marks the stupidity and humiliation in Chinese aviation history.

Then only real excuse I see here is about engine. Still, 4 billion fresh injection into China's own engine programme would in comparison much more worth it. China would better see a delay in deployment of J-20 if indeed sth goes out of hand with WS-15 instead of taking this short-sighted "backup, unified logistics aside. It would be equivalently to enlarging Ruso-Sino aviation gap by 4+4= 8 billion. Some heads would roll when we look back from future if the deal goes thru.

I am not convinced of any logic that has been put forward to justify the deal so far. I still think it's a rumor.

 

[paintgun]

Over on CD, people dug out old news on China's interest in the Su-33 and some other aircraft and stuff over recent years. And none of them materialized, and now this imminent Su-35 deal...

But guess what? All these pieces have originated from one single Russian newspaper, 生意人报 (anyone know how they translate it into English?)!

kommersant

It's allover the news now, some of which are mainstream. The day when China buys it, is the day that marks the stupidity and humiliation in Chinese aviation history.

Then only real excuse I see here is about engine. Still, 4 billion fresh injection into China's own engine programme would in comparison much more worth it. China would better see a delay in deployment of J-20 if indeed sth goes out of hand with WS-15 instead of taking this short-sighted "backup, unified logistics aside. It would be equivalently to enlarging Ruso-Sino aviation gap by 4+4= 8 billion. Some heads would roll when we look back from future if the deal goes thru.

I am not convinced of any logic that has been put forward to justify the deal so far. I still think it's a rumor.

if this deal happens (or incited but fell through) because of inadequacies, i think heads would already rolled off the chopping block

but to make matters more complicated Shenyang Liming even rolled out that achievement post, showing that they are doing OK with the engines

 

[Blitzo]

While on the subject of Su-35s, J-11s and half a dozen more Flanker variants. My question is specifically aimed at PLAAF's doctrine on Net-Centricity. As we all know, fighter-pilots being able to share intel securely, will be able to see the same big picture of the battlefield/air-space. This is a very important capability that gives an Air Force, the advantage of coordinating their attacks and countering any enemy offensives. Hence, what is the position or the priority, that PLAAF has placed on Net-Centricity?

Also, with PLAAF operating J-10A, J-11B, JH-7A, Su-30MKK, Q-5, Su-27SK, KJ-2000, J-8 and Su-27UBK. Are the Chinese putting an effort on streamlining or standardizing a common Data-Link, which all these aircraft can use to communicate with each other, AWACS and Ground Radar Stations?

That's another reason why the Su-35 purchase seems unlikely. I don't think russian flankers can datalink with chinese aircraft, and that could be one of the reasons why PLAAF went for J-11B (because russians weren't letting them upgrade/modify themselves).

And considering that PLAAF is now buying Russian Su-35 Super Flanker, what would China's approach be to achieve common, secure and efficient Data-Link for combat aircraft in PLAAF and PLANAF?

Whoa slow down here, it's only the russians claiming this and they've been wrong too many times before, things from Su-33, to Tu-22M and carrier arrestors.

 

[plawolf]

So, would you want 48 Su35s for $4bn, or 40 J20s for $4bn? 'nough said me thinks.

The only way this deal would work would be if it was made for political reasons. From an operational stand point, that deal would make no sense to China.

Now, I could have seen China maybe being willing to buy up to a dozen Su35s for a cool $1bn if that got them access to the 117 engine and AL31Fs.

Having 117s would help to accelerate the J20 test programme, and the engines may even be good enough to allow slow rate batch production of J20s before the WS15 is ready (kinda like what LM is doing with the F35, but hopefully without as many serious problems).

I can see China being willing to spend $1bn for that, but not $4bn. The number of planes and price of the control is a deal-breaker in my view. It just won't happen if that is what the Russians are holding out for.

 

[asif iqbal]

plus buying a fighter to get hands on the engine is a bit of a overkill

its like buying the house for the Flatscreen TV it has in it

 

[Deino]

Hmmm ... just found at the Key-forum (via "TR1"):

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Good overview of Su-35/China situation. I initially dismissed this as unlikely, but the Chinese interest seems real. Alexander Fomin's comments in the article are not election talk.

China agrees on the price, 85 million per aircraft, but Russian side is pushing for legally firm protection of intellectual property.

Will be very very interesting (and funny) if this concludes with Chine getting the 48 birds.

Sadly my Russian is even better than my Chinese.

Deino

 

[Red Moon]

deleted

---------- Post added at 05:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:23 PM ----------

Over on CD, people dug out old news on China's interest in the Su-33 and some other aircraft and stuff over recent years. And none of them materialized, and now this imminent Su-35 deal...

But guess what? All these pieces have originated from one single Russian newspaper, 生意人报 （anyone know how they translate it into English?)!

Kommersant

---------- Post added at 05:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:25 PM ----------

I think the article also said the third prototype for the SU-35 is now being tested. So it is not necessarily that far ahead of the J-20, and somewhat behind the j-10b. The story does not make sense as a "stopgap". If you want the engines, and the Russians are willing to sell, then you just negotiate a sweeter price for the item, rather than pretend nobody knows what it's about.

 

[kroko]

Cant believe that this su-35 story is still in the news. This is just a rumour.

China already has j-11b. it wasnt willing to buy su-27/su-30 anymore

China´s j-20 is already flying.


No way you will see su-35 in PLAAF

 

[Blitzo]

Hmmm ... just found at the Key-forum (via "TR1"):




Sadly my Russian is even better than my Chinese.

Deino

Yeah, like I said over at CDF I'd like to wait for word from the chinese side. We've seen these things from the russian side before and amounted to nothing.

 

[Subedei]

Although talks of a contract are still considered to be speculation, I can imagine several reasons that the Chinese might be interested in acquiring the Su-35. First and foremost is that the Su-35 is the ultimate Russian evolution of the Su-27 platform which is the basis of more variants of currently evolving combat aircraft than any other aircraft in the Chinese system. These variants include: the known J-11B, BS, and J-15, and possibly variants numbered from J-16 - 19. With this many resources invested in the evolution of this platform, and with the investment going forth into the foreseeable future, I don't think it unreasonable to consider that the Chinese might be interested in obtaining access that would allow them to achieve detailed examinations of adaptations that the Russians applied to achieve their ultimate evolution of the platform. This would allow them to conduct comparative analyses of the evolution of the Su-27 platform in the Russian and Chinese systems and could provide technical information useful to their ongoing evolution of the platform.

My 2 cents!