China Flanker Thread II
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kinda misleading title and some usage of words but still....
War game argues that USAF fleet could be outmatched by Chinese
By Stephen Trimble
Rand's 90-slide briefing presented in August argues that the US Air Force's fifth-generation fighter fleet could be outmatched by hordes of lesser-skilled Chinese Sukhoi Su-27 pilots in a 2020 battle over the Taiwan Straits. In the Rand war game, China launches an air attack on skies above Taiwan. Using advantages of proximity and sheer numbers, the assault force consists of 72 Su-27 Flankers, 24 in each of three regiments. Operating from Andersen AFB, Guam, the USAF can muster only six Lockheed F-22s in the Taiwan Straits at any time.
As the engagement starts, Chinese Flankers outnumber F-22s by 72 to six. The F-22s are also heavily outgunned in the battle. Three Su-27 regiments carry a total of 912 air-to-air missiles, compared with 48 by six F-22s.
In the end, the simulation optimistically assumes no F-22s are shot down in dogfights, but enough Su-27s break through to wipe out the USAF's tankers. Since the F-22s lack the range to return to a friendly base, they are lost anyway.
War game argues that USAF fleet could be outmatched by Chinese
By Stephen Trimble
Rand's 90-slide briefing presented in August argues that the US Air Force's fifth-generation fighter fleet could be outmatched by hordes of lesser-skilled Chinese Sukhoi Su-27 pilots in a 2020 battle over the Taiwan Straits. In the Rand war game, China launches an air attack on skies above Taiwan. Using advantages of proximity and sheer numbers, the assault force consists of 72 Su-27 Flankers, 24 in each of three regiments. Operating from Andersen AFB, Guam, the USAF can muster only six Lockheed F-22s in the Taiwan Straits at any time.
As the engagement starts, Chinese Flankers outnumber F-22s by 72 to six. The F-22s are also heavily outgunned in the battle. Three Su-27 regiments carry a total of 912 air-to-air missiles, compared with 48 by six F-22s.
In the end, the simulation optimistically assumes no F-22s are shot down in dogfights, but enough Su-27s break through to wipe out the USAF's tankers. Since the F-22s lack the range to return to a friendly base, they are lost anyway.
for year,pentagon and various right wing thin tank tend to exaggerate non existence threat as to justify this near $1 trillion a year military expenditure.
most of so call threat from Domono effect in 1957,to the so called soviet gigantic military expenditure in the late 70's to 80's(in reality soviet economic already went bankrupt),exaggeration will simple lead to overreaction with deadly consequence.
exactly,
also china wont deploy all its flankers, if they did what will be left to defend their own airspace if they were attacked. they will be wide open. what i dont understand is that china with its $59 billion budget when they increase its budget with another $9 billion, america military starts whining about how its a threat and its not transparent. what is china mean't to do? show their nuclear submarine technology, ballistics missles, tell them their secret projects. why is china not allowed to have secrecy and higher budget its plain stupid. china has 1.3 billion people to protect, if not all china should have the highest military budget in the world actually. america i dont understand is with its big military budget why dont they cut back a bit and pay some of their debts to other nations which they owe a large amount of. especially since the financial crisis that just happened?
also china wont deploy all its flankers, if they did what will be left to defend their own airspace if they were attacked. they will be wide open. what i dont understand is that china with its $59 billion budget when they increase its budget with another $9 billion, america military starts whining about how its a threat and its not transparent. what is china mean't to do? show their nuclear submarine technology, ballistics missles, tell them their secret projects. why is china not allowed to have secrecy and higher budget its plain stupid. china has 1.3 billion people to protect, if not all china should have the highest military budget in the world actually. america i dont understand is with its big military budget why dont they cut back a bit and pay some of their debts to other nations which they owe a large amount of. especially since the financial crisis that just happened?
FriedRiceNSpice
Captain
72 flankers is about 20-25% of China's Flanker fleet.
Pointblank
Senior Member
The airspace over Taiwan is very small; only 200 aircraft will be able to fit in the area at any given time. Furthermore, there is a serious issue of logistics with airfields around Taiwan; they can only handle so many aircraft at one time, especially in wartime conditions as aircraft need to be parked in shelters or dispersed over a wide area to prevent a strike from wiping out large numbers of aircraft in a single location. And I haven't even mentioned the issues with basing that many people in one area...
I heard the J-11B using composite material unlike the Russian made SU-30s /w mostly titanium. also redesigning the inlets. enable it reduce its RCS from 25m to 3m. That's signicant reduction!
a stealthy J-11B with BVR missile should slaughter a non-stealthy SU30-MK3, SU30-MKI?
a stealthy J-11B with BVR missile should slaughter a non-stealthy SU30-MK3, SU30-MKI?
FriedRiceNSpice
Captain
Well at 3m squared, an aircraft still isn't really stealthy. The newest F-16s has a even smaller RCS, approaching 1m squared, but that doesn't allow it to slaughter F-15s or Flankers. The F-22, on the other hand has a RCS far, far less than 1m squared.
there is no way J-11B is that small. Flankers can never be stealthy. But if the question is whether or not J-11B is a more effective A2A fighter, why not? It uses better missiles, has a better T/W ratio, uses complete set of MAWs and LWR, fiber optic communication. In fact, let's not compare J-11B to mki, but rather to su-35. Will a J-11B in 2012 be equal to a su-35?
remember China scaled down the dimension of the J-11B, it's smaller than the orginal SU-27 size.
su30-mki is essentially the baseline su-35 with canard and TVC, increasing its manuverability. MKI also switched to PESA, same as the su-35.
J-11B has lower RCS but needs to have canard and TVC also and hopefully gets its AESA soon.
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