China Flame Attendants

bd popeye · Apr 9, 2008

Dongfeng said:
To Rising China: I share your feeling on this issue. However, bd Popeye is one of the most valued members (and moderators) of this forum, so you'd better show some respect. Also I think you need to be able to handle a joke, as I don't think he was that serious. And please stop using words like "we Chinese", since you cannot speak on behalf of all Chinese.

Thank you Dongfeng & optionsss. I agree.

Popeye, definitely you are not Chinese. Since this is a Sinodefence site, and since you are non-Chinese, you don't need to respond to my wording "our paramilitary corp". Besides, I didn't ask for your respond either.

Pretty disrespectful I'll say.

By the way I can respond to any post in this forum. So can you.

Let's end this on those words.

Mr T · Apr 9, 2008

RedMercury said:
Pfft. These professionals who are doing their jobs of ensuring the smooth ceremony of the olympic flame run are called thugs while the "nonviolent" anarchists who attack flame carriers in wheelchairs are put on a pedestal.

I think that the people who have deliberately tried to interfere with the flame's procession have been generally criticised. Most support goes towards those who simply protested on the side-lines.

As for the "professionals" as you call them, may I remind you that they are not in China. Even if they might have the authority in China to do what they like, they have to respect the laws of the countries they operate in. This is why they have been criticised. And I think Lord Coe was supportive of the torch coming through London - that he had criticism for the guards leads me to believe they were being too heavy-handed and not respecting their host country.

Maybe now you will understand why Chinese have a completely different worldview from many westerners.

Maybe then Chinese people could read more widely and not jump to conclusions based on a small number of views. Of the people I have talked to nowhere near a majority praised those people who tried to stop the runners.

Maybe if the LOUSY local police can do a better job, the flame attendants wouldn't be so busy.

What were the Police supposed to do differently?

Clearly the protestors had a right to be there - they couldn't be arrested simply for protesting. And the people who tried to sabotage the run in London apparently had disguised themselves as ordinary by-standers. So there wasn't anything else that could be done realistically, other than have the Torch run through empty streets.

optionsss · Apr 9, 2008

As for the "professionals" as you call them, may I remind you that they are not in China. Even if they might have the authority in China to do what they like, they have to respect the laws of the countries they operate in. This is why they have been criticised. And I think Lord Coe was supportive of the torch coming through London - that he had criticism for the guards leads me to believe they were being too heavy-handed and not respecting their host country.

I don't think this is a respect issue, but a miss communication at the best. Both side must have talked about during torch relay, how the security should proceed ect... China must have told the British that these man are there to protect the torch. The British must also have agreed or else these man would not be there. These soldiers were given clear orders if the protesters get pass the police force they must prevent them from grabbing the runner and the torch. The British might think that they are just to form a human shield around the torch. Keep in mind, this is only the second time that torch relay have international tours(Use to be only within the hosting nation), and the first time with such violent protest. It is absolutely normal for things like this to happen.

Maybe then Chinese people could read more widely and not jump to conclusions based on a small number of views.

I don't think you statement of Chinese should read more is correct. Most of the Chinese, who can log on to this Forum are living outside of China and DO read news from both side. You see this is the problem, the main stream media are just to biased(posting fake, and cutting out important details on pictures), and keep fanning flames to attract eye balls. On this issue, I have read NYT, CNN ect... They are basically oblivious to the death and destruction that the "non-violent" protesters have caused in Tibet. Resort to not reporting any, as if the death of Chinese citizens are not important. They also did not condemn any of the violent protest in Paris or in London. It would be nice if any body can just interview 20000 for a second, and ask what they think but we can't that can we? So we are left with the main stream media and their propagandas. When some of the Chinese students at Paris showed up at the torch rally to support their country, they also asked the protesters do they know China very well or know anything about Tibet's history. Half of them can't even point out China on a world map, but they still protest and refuse to believe their media could report biased news about Tibet. I think you should understand why many Chinese are angry at Western Countries, before stating that Chinese should read more.

Finn McCool · Apr 9, 2008

I suppose we'll have to see how the San Francisco leg goes. I'm in the same time zone so I can bring you real time updates. The situation is looking a bit dicey. There's thousands of people already there based on a report I read just a moment ago. Also there's hundreds of Chinese-Americans being bused in from around the Bay Area to do counter demonstrations. That's a recipe for trouble: in Paris there were clashes between pro-Chinese demonstrators and the others.

Demonstrators gather before torch relay By JULIANA BARBASSA and MARCUS WOHLSEN, Associated Press Writers
1 hour, 37 minutes ago

SAN FRANCISCO - Demonstrators amassed on the city's waterfront Wednesday before the start of the Olympic torch's only stop in North America, and law enforcement officers attempted to prevent a reprise of the chaotic demonstrations that have followed the flame along its journey to Beijing.

The torch's 85,000-mile, 20-nation global journey is the longest in Olympic history, and is meant to build excitement for the games. But it has also been a target for activists angered over China's human rights record, prompting officials to warn they might make a last-minute change to the relay route.

Thousands of people had gathered along the relay route, which hugs the San Francisco Bay. Pro-Tibet and pro-China groups were given side-by-side permits to demonstrate, and there already were signs of tension.

"A lot of Tibetan people are getting killed," said Kunga Yeshi, 18, who had traveled here from Salt Lake City. "The Chinese said they'd change if they got the Olympics, but they still won't change."

Across the street, a bus carrying dozens of pro-China supporters arrived.

"The Olympic spirit unites all human beings, not only Chinese — also America and the whole world," said Hui Chen, 36, of San Jose. Chen said his was one of 50 buses chartered by an amateur sports association that wanted to celebrate China's first opportunity to host the Olympic Games.

As runners carry the torch on its six-mile route, they will compete not only with people protesting China's grip on Tibet and its support for the governments of Myanmar and Sudan, but also with more obscure activists. They include nudists calling for a return to the way the ancient Greek games were played.

One runner who planned to carry the torch dropped out earlier this week because of safety concerns, officials said.

Local officials say they support the diversity of viewpoints, but have ramped up security following chaotic protests during the torch's stops in London and Paris and a demonstration Monday in which activists hung banners from the Golden Gate bridge.

"We are trying to accomplish two goals here. One is to protect the right to free speech and the other is to ensure public safety, and here in San Francisco we are good at both of those things," said Nathan Ballard, a spokesman for Mayor Gavin Newsom.

Ambulances were to be stationed along the torch's route, extra sheriff's deputies and state law enforcement officers were put on patrol. Vans were deployed to haul away arrested protesters, and the FAA restricted flights over the city to media helicopters, medical emergency carriers and law enforcement aircraft. Law enforcement agencies erected metal barricades and readied running shoes, bicycles and motorcycles for officers preparing to shadow the runners.

The flame was whisked to a secret location shortly after its pre-dawn arrival in San Francisco on Tuesday. It began its worldwide trek from Ancient Olympia in Greece to Beijing on March 24, and was the focus of protests from the start.

San Francisco was chosen to host the relay in part because of its large Chinese-American population.

International Olympic Committee President Jacques Rogge said the body's executive board would discuss Friday whether to end the remaining international legs of the relay after San Francisco because of widespread protest. The torch is scheduled to travel to Buenos Aires, Argentina, and then to a dozen other countries before arriving in China on May 4. The Olympics begin Aug. 8.

"We recognize the right for people to protest and express their views, but it should be nonviolent. We are very sad for all the athletes and the people who expected so much from the run and have been spoiled of their joy," Rogge said.

Meanwhile Wednesday, the White House said anew that Bush would attend the Olympics, but left open the possibility that he would skip the opening ceremonies. Asked whether Bush would go to that portion of the games, White House press secretary Dana Perino demurred, citing the fluid nature of a foreign trip schedule this far out and the many factors that go into devising it.

"I would again reiterate that the president has been very clear that he believes that the right thing for him to do is to continue to press the Chinese on a range of issues, from human rights and democracy, political speech freedoms and religious tolerance, and to do that publicly and privately, before, during and after the Olympics," she said.

___

Mr T · Apr 9, 2008

optionsss said:
China must have told the British that these man are there to protect the torch. The British must also have agreed or else these man would not be there.

I doubt very much there was any agreement for these men to act like Police. The law here is very clear - only select authorities have the right to use physical force to restrain people. Just because the Chinese told them to look after it doesn't mean they had the authority.

Another paper this morning reported that the guards were even pushing the Police around. You're not going to try to suggest they were told they could push anyone around, are you?

Most of the Chinese, who can log on to this Forum are living outside of China and DO read news from both side.

What about Chinese living outside of China? They're the ones that count in the end.

You see this is the problem, the main stream media are just to biased

Less biased than the Chinese media. At least they give a voice to people who support and criticise the Torch relay/Chinese Olympics. The Chinese media only focuses on the former.

When some of the Chinese students at Paris showed up at the torch rally to support their country, they also asked the protesters do they know China very well or know anything about Tibet's history. Half of them can't even point out China on a world map

According to who? And how does knowing about Tibet's history mean you can talk about the present? What happened decades/centuries ago doesn't necessarily justify doing something in the present.

Finn McCool · Apr 9, 2008

Well this is a bit anti-climactic, but I don't think you can consider it a victory for the authorites/China at all.

Olympic torch begins shorter S.F. route 12 minutes ago

SAN FRANCISCO - The Olympic torch relay got under way in San Francisco — and the flame promptly vanished. With thousands of protesters gathered to condemn China's human rights policies, protesters had lined the streets Wednesday waiting for the torch relay to begin.

As the ceremony began, the first torchbearer took the Olympic flame from a lantern brought to the stage and held it aloft before running into a warehouse. A motorcycle escort departed, but the torchbearer was nowhere in sight.

Buses and vans later left the warehouse, but it was unclear where the Olympic flame would reappear.

Shortly before it began, San Francisco officials cut the original six-mile route nearly in half. The flame's only North American stop has drawn thousands of demonstrators gathered to praise and condemn China during the flame's journey to Beijing.

Authorities did not offer an immediate explanation for the change, but city officials had warned they might truncate the route at the last minute for security reasons.

optionsss · Apr 9, 2008

I doubt very much there was any agreement for these men to act like Police.

Where did I say that there was such as agreement? All I said was, because this is the first time for situation like this. It is very likely both side miss understood each other and what the man can or can't do.

Another paper this morning reported that the guards were even pushing the Police around.

you are not trying to suggest that they were there to man handle everybody they see are you.

What about Chinese living outside of China? They're the ones that count in the end.

You mean the Chinese living inside China right? Well, with so many Chinese living outside they constantly feed information about what is going on back home.

Less biased than the Chinese media. At least they give a voice to people who support and criticise the Torch relay/Chinese Olympics. The Chinese media only focuses on the former.QUOTE]
When I say main streem media, CCTV is included. But at least the Chinese media aren't trying to fanning the flames.

According to who?

Click to expand...

The students who were there.

Finn McCool · Apr 9, 2008

Those "flame attendants" must be pretty tired, going through time zones like that.

Mr T · Apr 9, 2008

optionsss said:
All I said was, because this is the first time for situation like this. It is very likely both side miss understood each other and what the man can or can't do.

Doubtless there was a misunderstanding. The difference is that I believe the "guards" weren't listening/didn't care. I cannot think of any honest person who would think in a situation like this he could push the Police around in another country.

you are not trying to suggest that they were there to man handle everybody they see are you.

I'm suggesting they thought they had the right to.

Well, with so many Chinese living outside they constantly feed information about what is going on back home.

Then they need to stop listening pronto cos from reading some of the rubbish posted by Han foreigners I'm not surprised some Chinese believe so much nonsense about the world.

When I say main streem media, CCTV is included.

You're ignoring the point. The Chinese media is presenting a completely biased story - foreign media is more balanced by far.

The students who were there.

So you're telling me to trust you because you trust people who say they were there?

For such tough statements I'd at least expect something from a credible paper.

optionsss · Apr 9, 2008

Then they need to stop listening pronto cos from reading some of the rubbish posted by Han foreigners I'm not surprised some Chinese believe so much nonsense about the world.

Do you read Chinese? How do you know all the post by Han are rubbish? I'd like to see a very credible paper to prove that.

You're ignoring the point. The Chinese media is presenting a completely biased story - foreign media is more balanced by far.

My point was that we need an objective paper pass around the news, not propaganda. Before this, I actually held a very high regard for NYT. Honestly, it has been a real disappointment.

So you're telling me to trust you because you trust people who say they were there?

The person told me this was an organizers for the Chinese student, whom I know personally and I don't think that he would lie to me.

China Flame Attendants

bd popeye

The Last Jedi

Mr T

Senior Member

optionsss

Junior Member

Finn McCool

Captain

Mr T

Senior Member

Finn McCool

Captain

optionsss

Junior Member

Finn McCool

Captain

Mr T

Senior Member

optionsss

Junior Member