China can and will achieve total air superiority over Taiwan
- Thread starter green beret
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Roger604
Senior Member
Okay, so instead of just the time spent waiting for the asphalt to cool, you need to pave three layers and compress them each time. This doesn't sound like a one-two hour job.
Suppose you were faced with a runway dotted with several medium / large craters. You need to fill them up, wait, compress them, pave them again, etc. This all needs to be done perfectly so the aircraft doesn't go careening off a bumpy / crooked runway. How long do you think this will take? Originally, I said this process gives the PLAAF a 10-hour window. I still maintain this is a good estimate.
Suppose you were faced with a runway dotted with several medium / large craters. You need to fill them up, wait, compress them, pave them again, etc. This all needs to be done perfectly so the aircraft doesn't go careening off a bumpy / crooked runway. How long do you think this will take? Originally, I said this process gives the PLAAF a 10-hour window. I still maintain this is a good estimate.
Of the CEP issues, Thpuang and Crobato.
You are still assuming that based on few different logics, you can have CEP of around 30m applied to all missiles. Yet its based on that very famous "If it can be this way, it can be that way too" thinking and we are just going around and round.
I also don't take Sinodefence as a gosbel, but we all a reliant to these public sources and at least I use to select the most reliable and accurate sources like SD.
To me if some magazine (which bias isen't 100% ruled out) states that some other missile had much better CEP than stated in SD, then the other missiles CEPs have to be wrong as well sounds wishfull thingking and applying the logic of selecting only the good stuff, and ignoring the bad.
I want to belive...again and again...
But to the holes in the ground.
For Rodger, have you ever worked with soilconstructing?
I try to explain it in most simpliest ways:
The layers which I mentioned are the stuctual layers of almoust any soilconstruction sites, roads, ground works of buildings and so on. First you make the filter layer. Then the weight distriputing layer and last the weight bearing layer. Its done basicly by just dumping the proper soilmaterial to the hole, compress it (which doesen't take practically no time whatsoever) make the next layer similar way and last you lay down the Asphalt or other consumptionlayers
If you want specisifc timeframes, give me the size of the hole(s) and we shall count the K2 and K3 capacityvalues adjusted to wartime situtions.
And to crobato, again when its war, the situation is harardious to all participants and yet it doesen't stop the fighting...
You are still assuming that based on few different logics, you can have CEP of around 30m applied to all missiles. Yet its based on that very famous "If it can be this way, it can be that way too" thinking and we are just going around and round.
I also don't take Sinodefence as a gosbel, but we all a reliant to these public sources and at least I use to select the most reliable and accurate sources like SD.
To me if some magazine (which bias isen't 100% ruled out) states that some other missile had much better CEP than stated in SD, then the other missiles CEPs have to be wrong as well sounds wishfull thingking and applying the logic of selecting only the good stuff, and ignoring the bad.
I want to belive...again and again...
But to the holes in the ground.
For Rodger, have you ever worked with soilconstructing?
I try to explain it in most simpliest ways:
The layers which I mentioned are the stuctual layers of almoust any soilconstruction sites, roads, ground works of buildings and so on. First you make the filter layer. Then the weight distriputing layer and last the weight bearing layer. Its done basicly by just dumping the proper soilmaterial to the hole, compress it (which doesen't take practically no time whatsoever) make the next layer similar way and last you lay down the Asphalt or other consumptionlayers
If you want specisifc timeframes, give me the size of the hole(s) and we shall count the K2 and K3 capacityvalues adjusted to wartime situtions.
And to crobato, again when its war, the situation is harardious to all participants and yet it doesen't stop the fighting...
Roger604
Senior Member
Golly, I haven't done any paving myself, but I've seen workers pave roads for a long time.
If a given highway is dotted with big pot-holes, it takes more than a few hours for a determined crew to plug them up. You need a lot of manpower to smooth over the gravel or soil or whatever filling you have. If it's not smoothed over, some parts will be bumpy. That much is obvious. And if you have to go over it with several layers, gravel, soil, asphalt, cement... it's not a two hour job.
If a given highway is dotted with big pot-holes, it takes more than a few hours for a determined crew to plug them up. You need a lot of manpower to smooth over the gravel or soil or whatever filling you have. If it's not smoothed over, some parts will be bumpy. That much is obvious. And if you have to go over it with several layers, gravel, soil, asphalt, cement... it's not a two hour job.
maozedong
Banned Idiot
Last edited:
Good link Skorzeny.
The use of anchored (probably with epoxy around the anchoring bolts), interlocking fibreglass and alloy matts to cover back-filled craters is a quick and effective way to get runways back up to speed. Still, 3 hours is 3 hours, and that would very possibly be considerably extended in wartime by additional enemy efforts to keep the runways closed.Its not like they are sending 4 lazy, coffe drinking guys to fix it.
If you read the link i posted you see that they use 3 hours during an exercise.
Well I've seen how they make aircrafts and ships, and yet I woudn't go stating exactly how is the work done and how much it takes from different ammount of workpower and machines
But as Skorzensy gave the meassures of the holes lets count few comparable examples.
The 15 meter wide and 5 meter deep hole is roughly 300 m3rtd (means consruction-real). It requires around 210 m3itd (means the soil volume in dumpsters). From one 22ton wheel loader it takes roughly 45 mins to stuff that whole in normal working pace (including coffebrakes and such) Its counted from the capasity standarts which gives the engineers the tools to design the workduration and cost.
Now in wartime situation normal workingpace is not adjustable. In practise you can do the stuff alot faster. Also by adding more loaders the time is naturally reduced. With three wheeled loaders the hole is stuffed in 15 mins for example.
But like I've said the structure of the road/landingstrip isen't so simple. But however in emergy repairactions its propapbly done so that to around 4 meters height, the crater is stffed with gravel. Its compressed (takes approx. 10 mins) and then 1 meter or so (the heights can be different but the scale is this) rockgrumple, or what ever its called in english which is also compressed (but at this time alot faster as it can be done with cmpactors) and then is the consuption layer made. As Norfolk pointed out, emergy pavement solutions can be, and most propably is being used untill the situation is clam down enough to permanent asphalt being laid down.
Now like I said this is only theoretical estimations. Things can go wrong naturally , but also it can be alot smoother. I've never filled crater holes at airstrips so don't take my words too directly. But I've tried to give an example of how the soilworks usually goes in peacetime.
But as said in the Skorzenzy's article, Three hour was given to the crews to complete the task (whole airstrip) and by counting the manpower and machines that was described in the article, I wouldn't be suprised if it can actually be done at so...and even faster.