China can and will achieve total air superiority over Taiwan

I kind of doubt it would cost 4 to 6x more, despite the winged configuration. And China should make things rather cheaper too. Maybe the article meant 4x to 6x cheaper than JDAM.

The range of 60km at 11000m was also done by launching it at over Mach 1.1. Hence you see the J-8II as a delivery platform; it is definitely faster and has better high altitude performance than a JH-7A.

Because it's not from that article.... Cost of Aluminum Alloy and technology gap. Several different sources already confirmed this (Official too: direct interview of PGM maker, so believe it).

cabbageman said:

Because it's not from that article.... Cost of Aluminum Alloy and technology gap. Several different sources already confirmed this (Official too: direct interview of PGM maker, so believe it).

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well, care to show us that direct interview? It's kind of hard to know what the average price will be right now, considering they haven't started mass producing it.

This is one of them, interview of LS-6's Head Engineer:


Interviewer: "Like single bomb, what's the level of price?"
Expert: "About 70000~80000 USD. If you compare it directly it's relatively expensive, but a weapon with such long range, such big power, could be consider relatively low cost..."

This article also mentioned some additional facts. LS-6's anti-jamming capability is inferior to US technology (not a surprise). Future development path includes expansion for different bomb weight class, range improvement, anti-jamming research, and manufactoring reliability control.

BTW, if you want to use the pre-production JDAM cost estimation (which is much higher than the actual LRIP cost) for comparison, LS-6 is still twice the cost.

So no, I did not deliberately inflate anything.

cabbageman said:

BTW, if you want to use the pre-production JDAM cost estimation (which is much higher than the actual LRIP cost) for comparison, LS-6 is still twice the cost.

So no, I did not deliberately inflate anything.

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Thanks for providing the information. Interesting that he mentionned LGBs can be as accurate as having a 3 to 5 m CEP. Not sure if he is giving the CEP of LS-500j

cabbageman said:

This is one of them, interview of LS-6's Head Engineer:

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Interviewer: "Like single bomb, what's the level of price?"
Expert: "About 70000~80000 USD. If you compare it directly it's relatively expensive, but a weapon with such long range, such big power, could be consider relatively low cost..."

This article also mentioned some additional facts. LS-6's anti-jamming capability is inferior to US technology (not a surprise). Future development path includes expansion for different bomb weight class, range improvement, anti-jamming research, and manufactoring reliability control.

Click to expand...

That's about double the cost of a JDAM, but the LS-6 is more the equivalent of the JSOW. Would be interesting to see the cost of the FT-1 for 500kg bomb and the FT-2 for 250kg bomb kits.

The JDAM costs about US$23,000 a piece, which would make the LS-6 about 3 to 4 times its cost. The LS-6 is longer ranged than the JDAM, but shorter ranged than the JSOW, which has a range of about 130km. Incidentally the JDAM has demonstrated a range of 24nm, or almost 45km before from a particular platform. A block II JSOW will cost US$100,000, while incorporating improved guidance and improved jamming capabilities over the Block I JSOW.

The price of the LS-6 puts to rest the misconception that Chinese produced systems are always cheaper than their western counterparts. Where China has the edge is lower labour costs, but when it comes to production of higher end components, that can be offset by China's lower manufacturing reliability control.

I see it more as the fact they only started to manufacture these things, and so they do not have yet the infrastructure, experience, production refinement and volume amortizations that comes with long term mass production.

JDAM originally cost 35,000$ and the LS-6 is also initial quoted price. Better to compare this same stage vs. same stage, as you don't know what the long term production costs are. For that matter we don't know what FT-1/2/3 would cost like.

Many US and Western system costs are extremely high but has nothing to do with the weapons itself. These are extraneous costs like lobbying, marketing, playing politics that all go into the "invisible" costs of a platform system. Another is the perchant for 80/20 engineering principle. You can achieve 80% of the performance and features within 20% of the costs, but achieving the next 20% performance and features adds 80% more to the cost.

tphuang said:

Thanks for providing the information. Interesting that he mentionned LGBs can be as accurate as having a 3 to 5 m CEP. Not sure if he is giving the CEP of LS-500j

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LGBs are naturally more accurate but they come with their own bad of disadvantages including higher cost and vulernability to weather conditions. The most accurate weapons of all are using TV/EO guidance and you can probably go 1-2m CEP or even submeter. But that is also the most expensive and the most involved.

crobato said:

I see it more as the fact they only started to manufacture these things, and so they do not have yet the infrastructure, experience, production refinement and volume amortizations that comes with long term mass production.

JDAM originally cost 35,000$ and the LS-6 is also initial quoted price. Better to compare this same stage vs. same stage, as you don't know what the long term production costs are. For that matter we don't know what FT-1/2/3 would cost like.

Many US and Western system costs are extremely high but has nothing to do with the weapons itself. These are extraneous costs like lobbying, marketing, playing politics that all go into the "invisible" costs of a platform system. Another is the perchant for 80/20 engineering principle. You can achieve 80% of the performance and features within 20% of the costs, but achieving the next 20% performance and features adds 80% more to the cost.

Click to expand...

At US$35,000 the JDAM is still half the cost of the LS-6, while still offering better jamming resistance and accuracy. Which means the basic point still holds - it is not necessarily true that chinese produced weapons are definitely cheaper than their western counterparts.

JDAM has the advantage of large volume production so it costs have gone down to 21,000 dollars in 2001 values. The LS-6 hasn't even reached the mass production stage. That initial JDAM is about 35,000 $US for 1996-98 dollars and that is for something with only a 20km range max whereas teh LS-6 is starting from a higher point based on 2006 dollars and a range up to 60km. The difference of accuracy between the initial JDAM and the LS-6 isn't that much, 13m vs. 16m CEP, and it is hard to say how good is the jamming resistance of the initial versions. Of course the JDAM today is far more advanced in experience and production with all the years behind its belt and China is just starting.

Please note the interviewee was quoting probably which means the price hasn't set yet. Since the LS-6 is also being offered for export, I'm not sure what the context he is setting that price for since it may include a profit margin. I doubt that for an export customer the US would be selling JDAMs for $21,000.