China Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Arms Thread

[Michaelsinodef]

It is known that corruption is common in China but the CPC also has a reputation for getting things done. Sometimes the CPC is so successful that people find it hard to believe.
Uncomfortable question for Western pundits: What if the CPC handled the PLA as well as it handled Covid-19?

They will tell you that China didn't handle covid-19 well, or fake numbers etc. (and then use numbers from the CPC whenever it suits them of course).

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

It is known that corruption is common in China but the CPC also has a reputation for getting things done.

Is it, then? People's vision of China seems to be stuck somewhere in the early 2000s. While this has its strategic utility, it's tiresome to constantly deal with. Corruption was common in China before Xi's reforms. If you're an official in China today and you take a bribe, I salute your courage.

 

[ChongqingHotPot92]

It is known that corruption is common in China but the CPC also has a reputation for getting things done. Sometimes the CPC is so successful that people find it hard to believe.
Uncomfortable question for Western pundits: What if the CPC handled the PLA as well as it handled Covid-19?

Well the Chinese defector and former Party school professor Cai Xia also said that the PLA is incapable of waging wars because corruption really diminished its capabilities and weapon qualities.

In the West, it is really easy for folks to believe these ideas. Honestly, I think both sides are correct to a certain extend. Yes, both Russia and China have structural corruption issues that could erode their militaries' fighting capabilities. Yet, as with the case of CCP, I dare to hypothesize that the way corruption erodes fighting capabilities may be far less severe than those in the Russian Army, at least with Xi in charge. If there is one branch of the Chinese government that Xi had made more competent, it is the PLA. When I was much younger (before 2012), PLA officers' vehicles (mostly Toyota, Lexus, Audi, Volkswagen, or Mitsubishi jeeps) could part in any No-Parking spots in Guangzhou. If they run over pedestrians, traffic cops didn't even dare to touch them, because military officers could get away from punching police officers or other folks in the face in public. But now, military and police vehicles are the ONLY ones stopping before pedestrian crossings. Officers are usually not allowed to walk around the city in uniforms or drove their military-plated vehicles, but if they do, they would usually be super respectful toward strangers (at least far more respectful than other civil servants responsible for stamping licenses).

In general, I have my own reservations about Xi's crackdowns on free speech and the education industry, but when it comes to making the PLA more disciplined and competent, Xi has done a marvelous job. Well at least China is a military power to be reckoned with because of Xi. He deserves credit for making the country more secure (think the massive nuclear, ICBM silo, and naval expansions), the PLA more trusted by the people, while deterring domestic (Xinjiang) and foreign adversaries (an unnamable superpower and its puppet government on an unnamable island waiting to be suffer the same fait as Ukraine).

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

Honestly, I think both sides are correct to a certain extend. Yes, both Russia and China have structural corruption issues that could erode their militaries' fighting capabilities

We might also consider how corruption in the US military-industrial complex erodes the US military's fighting capabilities.

Yet, as with the case of CCP, I dare to hypothesize that the way corruption erodes fighting capabilities may be far less severe than those in the Russian Army, at least with Xi in charge.

Could you outline some ways in which corruption erodes the PLA's fighting capability post-Xi reforms?

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Well the Chinese defector and former Party school professor Cai Xia also said that the PLA is incapable of waging wars because corruption really diminished its capabilities and weapon qualities.

In the West, it is really easy for folks to believe these ideas. Honestly, I think both sides are correct to a certain extend. Yes, both Russia and China have structural corruption issues that could erode their militaries' fighting capabilities. Yet, as with the case of CCP, I dare to hypothesize that the way corruption erodes fighting capabilities may be far less severe than those in the Russian Army, at least with Xi in charge. If there is one branch of the Chinese government that Xi had made more competent, it is the PLA. When I was much younger (before 2012), PLA officers' vehicles (mostly Toyota, Lexus, Audi, Volkswagen, or Mitsubishi jeeps) could part in any No-Parking spots in Guangzhou. If they run over pedestrians, traffic cops didn't even dare to touch them, because military officers could get away from punching police officers or other folks in the face in public. But now, military and police vehicles are the ONLY ones stopping before pedestrian crossings. Officers are usually not allowed to walk around the city in uniforms or drove their military-plated vehicles, but if they do, they would usually be super respectful toward strangers (at least far more respectful than other civil servants responsible for stamping licenses).

In general, I have my own reservations about Xi's crackdowns on free speech and the education industry, but when it comes to making the PLA more disciplined and competent, Xi has done a marvelous job. Well at least China is a military power to be reckoned with because of Xi. He deserves credit for making the country more secure (think the massive nuclear, ICBM silo, and naval expansions), the PLA more trusted by the people, while deterring domestic (Xinjiang) and foreign adversaries (an unnamable superpower and its puppet government on an unnamable island waiting to be suffer the same fait as Ukraine).

Once Russia is done with, the US-led West would spare no effort in squarely targetting and supressing China, in hopes of forcing China and the Chinese people back into the disasters of the Century of Humiliation.

I do sincerely hope someone who has similar credibility, personality, vision and calibre as Xi would take over the helm of China, once Xi's third term ends in 2028.

China really needs a national strong-man to lead China through increasingly turbulent waters in the coming years and decades to come. The war for Chinese national rejuvenation is far from over.

 

[ChongqingHotPot92]

We might also consider how corruption in the US military-industrial complex erodes the US military's fighting capabilities.

Could you outline some ways in which corruption erodes the PLA's fighting capability post-Xi reforms?

Nepotism and illegal patron-clientism (promoting officers based on Guanxi and bribes 买官卖官 as opposed to war fighting skills), risk of using inferior materials made from SOEs or private firms that pay the highest bribes as opposed to purchasing from the most competent vendors, factionalism within the military (think IJA and IJN rivalry in Showa Japan) that prevent joint operations, etc.

Still, I think these issues could be resolved, especially with Xi's 2015 military reform. These WERE the issues before Xi came to power.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

I do sincerely hope someone who has similar credibility, personality, vision and calibre as Xi would take over the helm of China, once Xi's third term ends in 2028.

I have just the candidate in mind... #4Termz

Nepotism and illegal patron-clientism (promoting officers based on Guanxi and bribes 买官卖官 as opposed to war fighting skills), risk of using inferior materials made from SOEs or private firms that pay the highest bribes as opposed to purchasing from the most competent vendors, factionalism within the military (think IJA and IJN rivalry in Showa Japan) that prevent joint operations, etc.

Still, I think these issues could be resolved, especially with Xi's 2015 military reform. These WERE the issues before Xi came to power.

Do you have any evidence that these things still go on today, especially the corrupt promotion thing?

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

We might also consider how corruption in the US military-industrial complex erodes the US military's fighting capabilities.

Could you outline some ways in which corruption erodes the PLA's fighting capability post-Xi reforms?

Real world comparisons for navy alone:

Amphib carrier fires: one had a total hull loss, other had a minor fire and smoke damage.

Destroyers accidents: one had multiple collisions with slow moving cargo ships in friendly harbors. other had no accidents.

Sub accidents: one had multiple collisions with fishing boats or even stationary rocks, and total hull loss to fire. other had no accidents for 20 years.

Corruption scandals: one had multiple admirals taking bribes over course of decades. Other had nothing big come out.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

Real world comparisons for navy alone:

Amphib carrier fires: one had a total hull loss, other had a minor fire and smoke damage.

Destroyers accidents: one had multiple collisions with slow moving cargo ships in friendly harbors. other had no accidents.

Sub accidents: one had multiple collisions with fishing boats or even stationary rocks, and total hull loss to fire. other had no accidents for 20 years.

Corruption scandals: one had multiple admirals taking bribes over course of decades. Other had nothing big come out.

I was thinking more about systemic corruption. How many decades did the US waste with the Zumwalt boondoggle? That was pure corruption at every level. Now the US hopes its Wish.com Type 055 will be ready by the 2030s. Spoiler: it won't.

 

[ChongqingHotPot92]

Once Russia is done with, the US-led West would spare no effort in squarely targetting and supressing China, in hopes of forcing China and the Chinese people back into the disasters of the Century of Humiliation.

I do sincerely hope someone who has similar credibility, personality, vision and calibre as Xi would take over the helm of China, once Xi's third term ends in 2028.

China really needs a national strong-man to lead China through increasingly turbulent waters in the coming years and decades to come. The war for Chinese national rejuvenation is far from over.

Let's see if he could maintain a massive nuclear arsenal akin to those of the US regardless of the fluctuations in China's economic growth.

Another challenge for his government would be to implement lasting political institution reforms that could outlast his administration, so the Party State could thrive way beyond his time.

I have just the candidate in mind... #4Termz

Do you have any evidence that these things still go on today, especially the corrupt promotion thing?

Several of my undergrad upperclassmen were promoted that way. They joined the military through their fathers' connections (all veteran officers of 1979 Sino-Vietnamese War)