China Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Arms Thread

[davidau]

People actually think Trump wants to eliminate weapons...? He entered being President asking why can't he use nuclear weapons since the US has them? He said he wanted more nukes for the US. His base wants the US military to have more not less. Trump broke the treaty with Russia so he can do that. He's gotten heat for it so now all of the sudden China has to be included. Why? He's counting on China not participating and rejecting it so he can use that as an excuse to make more.

It's pointless trying to be civilized when Trump's goal is the US to have overwhelming advantage in numbers of nukes. That sounds like Trump and what his base wants. Trump didn't know Great Britain had nukes until recently. I bet he didn't know France has them too. So why aren't they included? How about eliminating all nukes? The only country that will have a problem with that is the US. I bet North Korea will more likely give up its nukes if the world didn't have nukes. So who's the trouble-making country...?

It's all or none at all. Anything in between is designed to create advantages and disadvantages between countries. You think you can trust Trump with being fair? The US already has overwhelming advantage. Anyone else that the US worries over having nukes or more nukes makes the US think twice. Are we forgetting the US is the only country to actually use nukes against another country? The excuse then was it saved lies even Japanese lives because you know the Japanese were automatons of the Emperor and they would've kept on fighting to the death.... Is that old archaic thinking of the past? It is an excuse that can be used today? We don't hear about how Chinese are automatons and don't think for themselves? Look at the pro-Hong Kong crowd who paint Mainlanders as that. It can't be racist because Hong Kongers believe it too. That excuse can easily be used today.

The US is the one afraid of others having nukes because they're the ones that start the wars. The US is either too afraid to start a war with a country with nukes, i.e. North Korea, or a country will justifiably use them if they're attacked by the US. Anything less than the elimination of all nukes is disingenuous from anyone claiming they're for peace.

Not only trump's a born liar, racist , he's also a warmonger. He's got to find some excuse, any excuse, so to get re-elected! Fat hope!

 

[SpicySichuan]

small and rudimentary

I agree it is small, but rudimentary? As long as China does not have the ABMs capable of intercepting the Agni-series missiles, I would not use the term "rudimentary" to describe India's nukes. They are definitely fission warheads (likely implosion devices) instead of thermonukes, but they are sufficiently deadly should they ever make it past adversaries' ABM systems. I would use the term "minimum deterrence" to describe India's capabilities.

 

[ougoah]

I agree it is small, but rudimentary? As long as China does not have the ABMs capable of intercepting the Agni-series missiles, I would not use the term "rudimentary" to describe India's nukes. They are definitely fission warheads (likely implosion devices) instead of thermonukes, but they are sufficiently deadly should they ever make it past adversaries' ABM systems. I would use the term "minimum deterrence" to describe India's capabilities.

India's current stockpile is comparable to China's from the early 1970s, in delivery too. Chinese warheads are >100KT and <10MT (that's 10,000KT for the illiterate out there) but can probably make them as destructive as they please these days. Indian warheads reportedly have largest achieved yield of roughly 40KT (a whopping 0.4% of 10MT LOL!). At most India can take out a few Chinese cities even if Chinese BMD aren't used. BTW Chinese BMD exist and have been around for a while even if HQ-9 and S-400 BMD abilities are ignored, there are HQ-19 and HQ-26. ASAT missiles are actually pretty good mid course interceptors and ASAT missiles have been produced since 2007. If kinetic kill of faster flying LEO satellites were perfected by 2007, Chinese BMD is probably now world leading or at least as good as whatever hard kill missiles the US is using wrt THAAD, SM-3. The laser project was beyond stupid and a giant waste of time and money for anyone with even a high school knowledge of physics. Well maybe the Americans thought they could fly those bumbling giant boeings within 100km of boosting ICBMs LOL morons. No wonder they cancelled it.

So in balance, India's nuclear option is non-existent. At best if they actually go through with any threat of going nuclear, they can maybe take out a few tier 2 or 3 Chinese cities but in exchange all of India will all be taking baths hotter than the surface of the sun because Chinese warhead yield, numbers, and delivery weapons pretty much cover very square kilometer and the US this month has been very busy demanding China to stop mass producing nukes. They clearly know China's real count isn't 300 warheads. FFS Chinese missiles exceed 300! How is it possible that all the DF series count about 10 times the number of alleged Chinese warheads? The warheads are not much more expensive than the missiles and the threats around are real and dangerous. Is PLA and CCP daft enough to be putting conventional warheads on the majority of those expensive DF-x?

 

[ougoah]

Oh I'm purely guessing China can pull off 10MT easy as piss because China mastered the hydrogen bomb in 1967 and even that one was already 3.3MT yield. 100MT is probably a piece of piss these days. The Tsar bomba was 50MT and the Russians could have tripled that easily if they wished and this is pretty ancient levels of nuclear weapons tech for any capable and organised nation. India's nuclear abilities in warhead design and delivery are far less than North Korea's. These are facts. Look it up. Even NK managed 100KT in reduced yield tests.

India going nuclear with China would be like a toddler with a .22 going up against a group of special forces armed with assault rifles. It's suicidal and something Indian leaders will never consider with a sane and sober mind. India saying the word "nuclear" is laughable. All the facts point to India being as much of a "nuclear power" as South Africa and Israel is. Nothing beyond some token weapons they never really intend to use anyway. There are only five true nuclear powers in the world. The only science and tech field that India truly is decent in is their space program and even that doesn't measure up to its hype when you really look at the details and compare with objectivity.

 

[SpicySichuan]

India's current stockpile is comparable to China's from the early 1970s,

Actually I would argue India's current capabilities are similar to those of China in the 1990s instead of 1970s. Keep in mind that most of the Agni series missiles are solid-fuel ballistic missiles. China only started fielding solid-fuel ballistic missiles in late 1980s.

 

[Figaro]

I agree it is small, but rudimentary? As long as China does not have the ABMs capable of intercepting the Agni-series missiles, I would not use the term "rudimentary" to describe India's nukes. They are definitely fission warheads (likely implosion devices) instead of thermonukes, but they are sufficiently deadly should they ever make it past adversaries' ABM systems. I would use the term "minimum deterrence" to describe India's capabilities.

Doesn't China have ABM interceptors already? IIRC, the HQ-19 is one of them.

Actually I would argue India's current capabilities are similar to those of China in the 1990s instead of 1970s. Keep in mind that most of the Agni series missiles are solid-fuel ballistic missiles. China only started fielding solid-fuel ballistic missiles in late 1980s.

There is no evidence that India even has the technology to make MIRVs today. Note China already possessed MIRVs or the technology to make them since the 1980s. Saying the current Indian arsenal is comparable to the 90s Chinese arsenal is too generous imho

 

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[bajingan]

We all know that the us will not reduce their nukes to China level, thats means the only option for China is to build up nuclear warheads to comparable to us counts and then enter negotiations for start treaty, no sane person is willing to enter negotiations in a weak position

 

[localizer]

We all know that the us will not reduce their nukes to China level, thats means the only option for China is to build up nuclear warheads to comparable to us counts and then enter negotiations for start treaty, no sane person is willing to enter negotiations in a weak position

Alternatively, China can breakdown its existing stockpile into smaller warheads and be able to deliver each with high probability and accuracy.

More efficient thermonuclear warheads can be made.

 

[shanlung]

India's current stockpile is comparable to China's from the early 1970s, in delivery too. Chinese warheads are >100KT and <10MT (that's 10,000KT for the illiterate out there) but can probably make them as destructive as they please these days. Indian warheads reportedly have largest achieved yield of roughly 40KT (a whopping 0.4% of 10MT LOL!). At most India can take out a few Chinese cities even if Chinese BMD aren't used. BTW Chinese BMD exist and have been around for a while even if HQ-9 and S-400 BMD abilities are ignored, there are HQ-19 and HQ-26. ASAT missiles are actually pretty good mid course interceptors and ASAT missiles have been produced since 2007. If kinetic kill of faster flying LEO satellites were perfected by 2007, Chinese BMD is probably now world leading or at least as good as whatever hard kill missiles the US is using wrt THAAD, SM-3. The laser project was beyond stupid and a giant waste of time and money for anyone with even a high school knowledge of physics. Well maybe the Americans thought they could fly those bumbling giant boeings within 100km of boosting ICBMs LOL morons. No wonder they cancelled it.

So in balance, India's nuclear option is non-existent. At best if they actually go through with any threat of going nuclear, they can maybe take out a few tier 2 or 3 Chinese cities but in exchange all of India will all be taking baths hotter than the surface of the sun because Chinese warhead yield, numbers, and delivery weapons pretty much cover very square kilometer and the US this month has been very busy demanding China to stop mass producing nukes. They clearly know China's real count isn't 300 warheads. FFS Chinese missiles exceed 300! How is it possible that all the DF series count about 10 times the number of alleged Chinese warheads? The warheads are not much more expensive than the missiles and the threats around are real and dangerous. Is PLA and CCP daft enough to be putting conventional warheads on the majority of those expensive DF-x?

Wulung tea bags, General Tso sweet and sour chicken and dim sum be carries in DFs warheads that dont have nukes.
Warheads must never be wasted.

Express delivery to give good efficient services.