China and North Korea: What Can China Do?

Red___Sword

Junior Member
If China wanted to teach the South Koreans a lesson for its souring relationship.

Why not cut of aid to North Korea and let it fall? Then China closes its borders, not allowing any refugees to come in and deport the remaining North Korean refugees to South Korea? Surely South Korea will crumble and they will be in big trouble.. Especially on a sudden and full scale unification with NK and SK economic disparity very huge. Hahaha..

Just my 2 cent of idea.

I don't think things would turned out THAT WAY, even in this very thread, people have given more than enough debates of "how to unify the Koreans", none are this optimistic that refugees would finally unifies Koreans.

Look into another perspet - China don't gain, for Korean Peninsula falls into chaos; China losses more, if "international intervene" decides "forget about Greece (or Libia, or Iran, or bla bla bla...), let's mess up korean peninsula!"

So no, China don't bother to screw up Korean, be it north or south.
 

Delbert

Junior Member
I don't think things would turned out THAT WAY, even in this very thread, people have given more than enough debates of "how to unify the Koreans", none are this optimistic that refugees would finally unifies Koreans.

Look into another perspet - China don't gain, for Korean Peninsula falls into chaos; China losses more, if "international intervene" decides "forget about Greece (or Libia, or Iran, or bla bla bla...), let's mess up korean peninsula!"

So no, China don't bother to screw up Korean, be it north or south.

With regards to refugees after North Korea collapses, the South Koreans have to accept the NK refugees whether they like it or not if they were deported by China. If China closes its borders, NK refugees have no where to go but to South Korea? Get it?

By the way in what aspect China will loose then, can you please state each items one by one (I just quite don't understand it)?? Its not a conflict in Libya where there is a war, its more of a political collapse and a sudden re-unification of Korea. (Like the one in East and West Germany) If incase there is a North Korean army coup. oh! Surely the more powerful and superior military of South Korea can handle that no need for (Nato) to come.

Most likely South Korea will end up in a Financial collapse, and huge troubles mainly in integrating two different society or social classes... That would be more advantageous for China I think... considering one of your economic competitor is in trouble... You can push them backward for a decade. By the time they recovered the GDP per capita of China will be ahead of Korea. Who knows? :p
 

Red___Sword

Junior Member
With regards to refugees after North Korea collapses, the South Koreans have to accept the NK refugees whether they like it or not if they were deported by China. If China closes its borders, NK refugees have no where to go but to South Korea? Get it?

By the way in what aspect China will loose then, can you please state each items one by one (I just quite don't understand it)?? Its not a conflict in Libya where there is a war, its more of a political collapse and a sudden re-unification of Korea. (Like the one in East and West Germany) If incase there is a North Korean army coup. oh! Surely the more powerful and superior military of South Korea can handle that no need for (Nato) to come.

Most likely South Korea will end up in a Financial collapse, and huge troubles mainly in integrating two different society or social classes... That would be more advantageous for China I think... considering one of your economic competitor is in trouble... You can push them backward for a decade. By the time they recovered the GDP per capita of China will be ahead of Korea. Who knows? :p

@Delbert,
"It is not wise to hear only one voice", let's wait for others to reply.

PS. I take it you read the whole thread? There were many posts by many members made a point what China suffers if korea peninsula degrade into another toilet.
 
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Player 0

Junior Member
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China puts a hand on North Korean wheel
By Sunny Lee

BEIJING - Recently embarked Sino-North Korean economic projects are seen as the most significant event between the former Cold War allies since fatal incidents surrounding the Korean Peninsula last year - the sinking of South Korea's Cheonan corvette and the shelling of Yeonpyeong Island - were blamed on North Korea.

The joint development of special economic zones has drawn uncommon attention because it received the Chinese central government's blessing. China in the past participated in other joint economic projects with North Korea, but preferred to have local governments and civilian enterprises take the driver's seat, while the central government largely sat back with its arms folded.

The most well-known among past initiatives was the Tumen River



Project near the Chinese and North Korean border, which also involved Russia, Mongolia, South Korea and Japan. This project started in 1991, a time when China was experimenting with reform and opening-up. China was using the market to play a major role in its own economic development, so the same mentality was applied in their joint project with North Korea.

"In other words, China applied a market principle to North Korea in the past, but it did not work out well. So now the central government is pulling up its sleeves to lead the projects," said Piao Jianyi, a North Korea expert at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences in Beijing.

The Chinese central leadership's interest in the projects this time was unmistakable. For the June 8 groundbreaking ceremony on one of the joint economic zones, Hwanggumpyong Island, China's commerce minister, Chen Deming, and North Korea's Jang Song-taek, the most powerful person in North Korea outside the two Kims - leader Kim Jong-il and his heir apparent son Kim Jong-eun- was in attendance. The duo also attended another ceremony the following day to build roads connecting the Chinese city of Hunchun with the North Korean port city Rajin.

With such high-profile launch ceremonies, attention has mounted on the prospects of the special economic zones. Will they bear fruit? A more important question is how the expected economic improvement, if it succeeds, will reconfigure North Korea's strategic calculations in dealings with the US and its Asian allies, including South Korea and Japan?

Jo Dong-ho, an analyst on North Korean economy at Ewha Womans University in Seoul, believes the projects will fare well. "This time, it was sort of a 'qualitative upgrade' from previous ones because the central government is involved. Even though China and North Korea have their share of differences but both sides also well understand their differences too. So, as time passes by, things will take up speed."

During the previous Tumen projects, both North Korea and China were somewhat lukewarm. North Korea feared the possibility of inviting capitalism elements from the economic projects to undermine its social control. For China, it was a period when it was putting its major effort on economic development on coastal regions first, and it didn't have enough resources to deploy to the second-tier cities such as those in the northeastern region.

But this time both North Korea and China found their chemistry. North Korea's usually hobbling economy has fallen to a further desperate situation, causing a severe food shortage. Besides, North Korea really needs a money shot in the arm ahead of the much-trumpeted national celebration of becoming a powerful and prosperous country just next year.

"North Korea needs money to spend around ever more," said Kim Young-hie, a senior international affairs columnist of the JoongAng Ilbo, South Korea's major daily.

For China, it aims to have a synergy effect by linking the joint initiative to its ongoing economic development projects in the northeastern region near the North Korean border, Changchun, Jilin and Tumen, which is dubbed the "Chang-Ji-Tu" plan.

"So, there is a new chemistry between the two countries that makes them more enthusiastic this time," said Hwang Jae-ho, an expert on China at Hankuk University of Foreign Studies in Seoul. "But that doesn't make it automatically a guaranteed success."

Establishing a bona-fide special economic zone requires a huge dose of investment to set up the relevant infrastructure. But so far, little has been done. Hwanggumpyong largely remains a sandy mass of land next to a river, where expects say it would be difficult or very expensive to set up an industrial facility.

The road linking Chinese Hunchun to North Korean Rajin, is being paved. In addition, North Korea doesn't have a financial system that can be used for international transactions, let alone a set of legal measures that can govern the projects. "It will take a long time for things to get some traction," said Hwang.

A North Korean document outlining the two joint special economic zones, obtained by this writer, listed a number of specific ambitious plans to locate auto and high-tech industries and tourism, among other sectors, in the zones. Of particular attention was the stipulation in page 10 of the document that the economic zones will be run as a "joint development and joint management" format.

"This is the first time for China and North Korea to try this," said Piao in Beijing. "They think doing this way will produce a better result. So, I remain optimistic."

Xie Tao, an expert on North Korea at Beijing Foreign Studies University, disagreed. "Given the limited potential of the North Korean economy and given its political regime, I don't think economic activities can go on successfully. I think the projects have more symbolic political significance than its economic merits," he said.

Xie believes that China is mainly driven by political reasons to keep the stability of its poor neighbor. China, he added, also wants to establish economic leverage with North Korea. "China used to be regarded as the number one country that can shape North Korea. But six-party talks, long stalled, proved otherwise. These days, people have come to think that China actually doesn't have much influence over North Korea." In other words, China wants to establish an economic leverage over North Korea, which it will use to gain torque in dealing with the North's nuclear issue.

Yoo Dong-ryul, a senior analyst on North Korea at the Police Science Institute in South Korea, doesn't think the joint projects will be sustainable. "The same old problem of guarding against capitalistic elements will play havoc with the plan. North Korea will be only willing to open a small hole, as seen in the mosquito net. It won't let a bug called 'capitalism' from getting in," said Yoo.
While China wants to use the economic incentives to goad North Korea into a more conciliatory stance on denuclearization and manage North Korean behavior, Jo at Ewha Womans University in Seoul believes that North Korea has its own calculations too.

"I think North Korea wants to play a new diplomatic chess game, by turning closer to China,'' Jo said. ''In the past, the US was the only superpower. North Korea was only interested in dealing directly with the US in the "aid-for-denuclearization" formula. But today China has become a member of the Group of Two nations. China has become as useful as the US is. By strengthening its ties with China, North Korea wants to balance the US. This is Pyongyang's new game."

Sunny Lee ([email protected]) is a Seoul-born columnist and journalist; he has degrees from the US and China.

(Copyright 2011 Asia Times Online (Holdings) Ltd. All rights reserved. Please contact us about sales, syndication and republishing.)
 

solarz

Brigadier
Slightly off topic, but I found this article:

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The presidency of the Geneva-based conference rotates alphabetically through its 65 members, but Baird said Canada would seek to change this rule. He said Iran was another country that should not head the disarmament conference.

As a Canadian, I find this decision by the Harper government utterly ridiculous. It's not as if the president of the conference gets to make binding decisions for other nations. I suspect the rotating presidency is a way to engage all nations into participating. It is quite counter-productive for Canada to make a gut-reaction like this and further marginalize NK and Iran.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
N. Korea will be ditched, but after U.S. leaves East Asia, China signs 50 year military alliance with S. Korea after it bequeaths Pyongyang to Seoul, in a bid to promote China-Korea bloc against re-militarized Japan.

The 50 year alliance will serve the purpose of insuring U.S. troops are evicted from Korea, preventing imperialistic Korean designs on Manchuria, as well as giving a reason for joint Chinese-Korean animosity against Japanese re-militarism (Japanese militarism of WW2)...

It all starts with U.S. leaving East Asia and Japanese re-militarizing, Unified Korea will serve China's purpose of a buffer state that is pro-China of course.
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
With regards to refugees after North Korea collapses, the South Koreans have to accept the NK refugees whether they like it or not if they were deported by China. If China closes its borders, NK refugees have no where to go but to South Korea? Get it?

By the way in what aspect China will loose then, can you please state each items one by one (I just quite don't understand it)?? Its not a conflict in Libya where there is a war, its more of a political collapse and a sudden re-unification of Korea. (Like the one in East and West Germany) If incase there is a North Korean army coup. oh! Surely the more powerful and superior military of South Korea can handle that no need for (Nato) to come.

Most likely South Korea will end up in a Financial collapse, and huge troubles mainly in integrating two different society or social classes... That would be more advantageous for China I think... considering one of your economic competitor is in trouble... You can push them backward for a decade. By the time they recovered the GDP per capita of China will be ahead of Korea. Who knows? :p

I will note that any economic issues that occur in one nation will quickly spill over into neighboring countries. For example, the 1997 Asian financial crisis was initially started in Thailand, but within a month, had spread to Indonesia, South Korea, the Philippines, and Malaysia, and proceeded to spread in 3 months to China, Hong Kong, and Japan. The crisis also negatively affected countries outside of the Asia-Pacific region within a year, with Russia, the United States, Canada, and Europe also feeling the effects on various degrees. A financial collapse of South Korea will most likely cause the economy of the Asia-Pacific region to head into economic chaos, one that the Chinese will feel significantly, as a sharp decline in exports will hurt the Chinese economy, and could cause social unrest.
 

nameless

Junior Member
I will note that any economic issues that occur in one nation will quickly spill over into neighboring countries. For example, the 1997 Asian financial crisis was initially started in Thailand, but within a month, had spread to Indonesia, South Korea, the Philippines, and Malaysia, and proceeded to spread in 3 months to China, Hong Kong, and Japan. The crisis also negatively affected countries outside of the Asia-Pacific region within a year, with Russia, the United States, Canada, and Europe also feeling the effects on various degrees. A financial collapse of South Korea will most likely cause the economy of the Asia-Pacific region to head into economic chaos, one that the Chinese will feel significantly, as a sharp decline in exports will hurt the Chinese economy, and could cause social unrest.

The 1997 financial crisis was caused by currency speculation and underlying weaknesses and policies within those countries. Thailand itself can not cause it.

As for South Korea, its economic importance to China is vastly overstated. For 2010 China's export to SK was 68.8 billion (less than 5% of total)
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Keep in mind SK is an export oriented nation. Major exports include semiconductors, wireless telecommunications equipment, motor vehicles, computers, steel ships, petrochemicals
Major imports include raw materials and oil(5th largest consumer of oil)
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IMO its more about politics than economics, even with NK gone and SK in disarray there is no guarantee that the Americans would leave especially considering its history. So China has to keep the status quo by keeping things cool while at the same time trying to displace America in the region.
 
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Red___Sword

Junior Member
N. Korea will be ditched, but after U.S. leaves East Asia, China signs 50 year military alliance with S. Korea after it bequeaths Pyongyang to Seoul, in a bid to promote China-Korea bloc against re-militarized Japan.

The 50 year alliance will serve the purpose of insuring U.S. troops are evicted from Korea, preventing imperialistic Korean designs on Manchuria, as well as giving a reason for joint Chinese-Korean animosity against Japanese re-militarism (Japanese militarism of WW2)...

It all starts with U.S. leaving East Asia and Japanese re-militarizing, Unified Korea will serve China's purpose of a buffer state that is pro-China of course.

All good wishes, but sounds like more fiction than reality.

Under what kind of circustances US would "leave East Asia"? - I didn't see anything THAT urgent other than, say, 2nd American Civil War, when some states had it enough for the wallstreet's ruling... but that sounds like fiction already.

China do not hysterialy "hate" America for it have a hand at virtually everything on earth - The occupation over Japan, is one thing China do not haste to change. (We shed blood together to MAKE Japan as of it today). Japanese Militarism dose getting a chest-thumbing from time to time, as long as there are foreign boots on its land. ( - BP and other US members: this is not bashing, I am actually praising)

As long as THAT (that US stays on Japan) didn't change, the line between North and South Korea is the line between China and America. I don't see any reason China would give it up if US didn't.
 
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