China and North Korea: What Can China Do?

My point is very simple. Some countries acknowledge their past mistakes and put in place measures to prevent it from happening again. Some countries apologise for their past mistakes and make amends as necessary. Others censor it from their own history and textbooks.

Click to expand...

Germany makes it a crime to not teach the Holocaust. That's the right attitude. How much non-CCP introspection has there been over the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution? Those are epic, influential, and painful periods of recent Chinese history that people seem to have completely forgotten, willfully or not. China likes to talk about Japan owning up to its atrocities in World War II but the CCP has not apologized or owned up to the disastrous Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution. The cult of Mao reflects that. His picture in and mausoleum near Tienanmen Square should be replaced with someone like Sun Yat Sen.

Geographer said:

Germany makes it a crime to not teach the Holocaust. That's the right attitude. How much non-CCP introspection has there been over the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution? Those are epic, influential, and painful periods of recent Chinese history that people seem to have completely forgotten, willfully or not. China likes to talk about Japan owning up to its atrocities in World War II but the CCP has not apologized or owned up to the disastrous Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution. The cult of Mao reflects that. His picture in and mausoleum near Tienanmen Square should be replaced with someone like Sun Yat Sen.

Click to expand...

Funny that you did not mention Japanese distortion of their history during WW2 and before, guess those are not epic, influential and painful periods. Ultimately the issue of Japanese atrocities is a bilateral issue between China and Japan, it is independent of everything else. German history and domestic Chinese history have nothing to do with it.

Oh, and, back to topic, what China used to do in the history, we (we Chinese) inherit the good stuff, and try to identify and "neutralize" the non-good ones. The current China-NK relationship, is nevertheless, after-reviewd-product. (Not am I saying people actually never review their own history would know the difference....)

On the topic between PRC and DPRK (and in this case, related to RoK as well), PRC has now claimed that some Korean folk songs (including the famous Arirang) is developed by the Chinese:

China puts 'Arirang' on Chinese heritage list
By Kang Yoon-seung in Seoul/The Korea Herald | ANN – Thu, Jun 23, 2011

Seoul (The Korea Herald/ANN) - The Chinese government is claiming to have developed some of Korea's cultural heritage. Often causing discord by claiming to be the originators of foreign culture, China this time listed Korean folk song "Arirang" in the third list of their National Intangible Cultural Assets.

"Arirang" is a Korean folk song sung by Koreans all over the globe. Many consider the song a source of national pride. The music was played at the Olympic Games when the two Koreas entered the stadium together during the opening ceremony.

Some Korean instruments and sports were also included. It also listed Korean traditional weddings and clothing back in 2009.

Although it is believed that the measure has been made to protect its ethnic minorities, some argue it is problematic that China considers such culture as Chinese.

Click to expand...

Ostensibly, this revision is to protect the Korean-speaking minorities in PRC's northeast region. However, it will be more credible if there is proof that it was these minorities that developed these songs. Otherwise, it looks more like a revisionist attempt that is not in line with the "peaceful rise" rhetoric (maybe it is just rhetoric?).

^Dude the Chinese government gives special treatment and integration to all minority sites, and has a standing policy of positively integrating the histories of its minorities into mainstream Chinese history, like saying Genghis Khan was a great hero to both Mongolia and China for unifying China under his empire. Another example would be the various artefacts and mummies found in Xinjiang which, while not of Chinese origin or integrated anyway. The purpose of this is to show China as a multicultural, multinational entity rather than imply than to be Chinese you have to be Han, though this is a policy based largely on geography on where these finds are found or where the minority groups reside.

Its a policy of multiculturalism that goes as far back as when China first became a republic under the government of Yuan Shikai, while it is true that by following it in this case threatens relations with the two Korean states, would you rather the Chinese bulldoze it? Would you rather the Chinese state be a Han state that treats minorities like Israel treats Palestine?

And also what exactly do these folk songs have to do with relations between China and the DPRK?

Spartan95 said:

On the topic between PRC and DPRK (and in this case, related to RoK as well), PRC has now claimed that some Korean folk songs (including the famous Arirang) is developed by the Chinese:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Ostensibly, this revision is to protect the Korean-speaking minorities in PRC's northeast region. However, it will be more credible if there is proof that it was these minorities that developed these songs. Otherwise, it looks more like a revisionist attempt that is not in line with the "peaceful rise" rhetoric (maybe it is just rhetoric?).

Click to expand...

Wooh.... How the world spins?

I remember there is "documented" evidence that ALL THE NORTH, EAST, NORTH EAST, EVEN SOME SOUTH EAST - ASIA CIVILIZATION, were Koreans' historical heritage, and it is Koreans who "mobilized / evolved" the abovementioned region, into "proper civilization", from "barbaric normands"

- By Koreans' historical research.

"However, it will be more credible if there is proof that it was these minorities that developed these songs. Otherwise, it looks more like a revisionist attempt that is not in line with the "peaceful rise" rhetoric (maybe it is just rhetoric?)."

You should say the same thing again, to another bunch of audience.

Red___Sword said:

Wooh.... How the world spins?

I remember there is "documented" evidence that ALL THE NORTH, EAST, NORTH EAST, EVEN SOME SOUTH EAST - ASIA CIVILIZATION, were Koreans' historical heritage, and it is Koreans who "mobilized / evolved" the abovementioned region, into "proper civilization", from "barbaric normands"

- By Koreans' historical research.

Click to expand...

Do you have a link to provide on what you stated above? I would like to have a look at that claim.

Red___Sword said:

"However, it will be more credible if there is proof that it was these minorities that developed these songs. Otherwise, it looks more like a revisionist attempt that is not in line with the "peaceful rise" rhetoric (maybe it is just rhetoric?)."

You should say the same thing again, to another bunch of audience.

Click to expand...

Those are said to a lot of different audiences at different places. It is not unique here.

And in other news, PRC has promised not to defend further provocations by DPRK:

China promises not to defend further provocations by North

SEOUL (Kyodo) -- China has told South Korea that it will no longer take the side of North Korea if Pyongyang makes further provocations after tensions spiked over the North's two deadly attacks on the South last year, President Lee Myung Bak told a group of South Korean lawmakers Thursday, according to Yonhap News Agency on Friday.

"China delivered its intentions (to South Korea) that it won't stand by the North if it makes an additional provocation," an unidentified lawmaker was quoted as saying.

Lee made the remark during a lunch meeting with members of the parliamentary defense committee.

The Chosun Ilbo, a mass-circulation newspaper, carried a similar report, citing lawmakers who were present at the meeting with Lee.

According to the daily, Lee told the lawmakers that China clearly warned North Korea that the South would retaliate if the North carries out another provocation.

"President Lee said North Korea would not be able to carry out further acts of provocation and added that China officially notified our government that it would no longer help the North if it did that," a lawmaker was quoted by the daily.

China is the North's traditional ally and has provided the North with food and energy assistance and diplomatic support.

North Korea sank a South Korean warship with a torpedo attack and also launched an artillery attack on a border island. The North has denied its involvement in the ship sinking and claimed the South had provoked the shelling first.

"I still cannot contain the feeling of outrageousness toward the North," Lee was quoted as telling the lawmakers.

(Mainichi Japan) June 24, 2011

Click to expand...

Not sure how credible is this information about PRC not defending DPRK if there are further provocations. The media may be spinning this, or it may be private reassurances offered by PRC officials.

Spartan95 said:

Do you have a link to provide on what you stated above? I would like to have a look at that claim.



Those are said to a lot of different audiences at different places. It is not unique here.

And in other news, PRC has promised not to defend further provocations by DPRK:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Not sure how credible is this information about PRC not defending DPRK if there are further provocations. The media may be spinning this, or it may be private reassurances offered by PRC officials.

Click to expand...

Don't believe it. Quoting an "unidentified source" is just a tactic of making a rumor. Japanese and South Korean media are notorious of overusing this trick.

I was in another forum where a Japanese poster was following along the rhetoric of how China copies everyone else. I had to remind him what's Japan all about but a culture copied from China. That shut the guy up who didn't think about the obvious before putting in the mob mentality foot in the mouth.

Same goes with South Korea. Yeah like they recently didn't claim Confucius was Korean? Or I like how the Vietnamese lay claim to everything Chinese as stolen from them. And all of this was before any of these recent tensions they say has soured relations and alarmed China's neighbors. I also love how all brag about military conquests of China. And all territorial disputes with China are Chinese military conquests of them. The contradiction is they do the very same things all the time yet when China writes history that they dispute it's interpreted as Chinese aggression.

In another forum there was a South African trying to lump himself with the West stinking up the Chinese threads about democracy and freedom and human rights rhetoric. I had to remind him that the West was late in the game in the anti-aparthied movement and was a supporter of it all the time before. China was there from the very beginning of Nelsen Mandela's movement as shown by one of his very first foreign trips after being released from prison was to China. People around the world are being taught rewritten history. Should the Chinese interpret that as aggression especially when the lies directly smear China? Let me guess... anyone else can against China but China can't return the gesture. And they think they're fair and honorable?