China and North Korea: What Can China Do?

mr.unknown

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Bloomberg explains DPRK actions as a function of dependence due to sanctions:

North Korean Dependence on China Trade Rises as Sanctions Worsen Isolation
By Bomi Lim - May 27, 2011 12:53 AM PT

North Korea’s dependence on China deepened last year as exports of coal and other minerals to its main ally jumped and global sanctions left Kim Jong Il’s regime increasingly isolated.

China accounted for 83 percent of North Korea’s $4.2 billion of international commerce in 2010, the Seoul-based Korea Trade-Investment Promotion Agency said today in an e-mailed statement. China made up 79 percent of trade in 2009, and 53 percent in 2005, according to the statement.

The U.S. and its allies repeatedly criticized China last year for failing to restrain North Korea from provocative acts, including its pursuit of nuclear weapons and attacks on South Korea. Yesterday, Kim returned from his third trip to China in a year, highlighting the growing importance of ties to the Beijing government as well as his possible failure to win the money he needs to prop up North Korea’s faltering economy.

“Even as the two nations move ahead with economic cooperation, they seem to differ over how they go about doing it,” said Kim Yong Hyun, professor of North Korean studies at Seoul-based Dongguk University. “Kim Jong Il would have wanted the Chinese central government’s pledge of investment, and there is little evidence to suggest this has materialized.”

China’s President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao both vowed to strengthen ties with North Korea in their May 25 meetings in Beijing with Kim, according to reports by Xinhua News Agency and the Korean Central News Agency. Wen told Kim that China is ready to “further encourage the initiatives of localities and enterprises” in joining economic projects, Xinhua reported last night, a reference that wasn’t mentioned in a report by North Korea’s KCNA.
China Model

Wen’s comments signal China’s reluctance to provide economic assistance to North Korea at the state level, Dongguk’s Kim said. China would instead focus on projects promoted by private companies based on business interest, he said. Wen told South Korean President Lee Myung Bak last week in a meeting in Tokyo that China wants North Korea to learn and apply the lessons of its own market-oriented reforms.

Kim Jong Il last year ordered the northeastern city of Rason to be developed into a center for foreign trade. Rason, which was named a free economic zone in 1991, lies on the east coast and includes ports facing the Pacific Ocean.

North Korea in April announced plans to develop Rason to raise port capacity and modernize railways. The city has drawn many businesses from countries including China, Hong Kong, Thailand and Australia, KCNA said April 6.
Prisoner Freed

Kim’s trip to China came as U.S. envoy Robert King was visiting North Korea to assess the country’s food needs. Following requests by King and others, North Korea decided to release U.S. citizen Jun Young Su, who had been held in the country since November, KCNA said today.

North Korea’s requests for international donations of food may be “politically motivated” as this year’s shortages aren’t more severe than in previous years, South Korean Unification Minister Hyun In Taek said April 25 in Seoul.

Kim has pledged to build North Korea into a “strong and prosperous nation” next year, which marks the centennial of the birth of his late father and the country’s founder, Kim Il Sung.

“North Korea’s dependence on China will further grow as global sanctions and suspension of inter-Korean trade continue to be in place,” the South Korean agency, known as Kotra, said.

South Korea’s Lee cut off most trade with North Korea in May last year, accusing Kim’s regime of torpedoing a naval warship, killing 46 South Korean sailors. An industrial complex in North Korea, where South Korean firms operate using local workers, is the only joint project currently in operation.
UN Sanctions

Kim’s government was also put under tougher United Nations sanctions banning weapons trade and restricting financial transactions after its second nuclear test in May 2009. That was followed last year by further U.S. trade restrictions aimed at cutting off money to key figures in the regime and military.

The 2010 trade value represented a 22 percent jump from a year earlier and was the highest recorded since Kotra started compiling data on North Korea in 1990, the statement said. The country doesn’t release its own economic figures.

North Korea’s overseas sales of coal, its No. 1 export item, jumped 50 percent in value from a year earlier, while exports of steel grew 59 percent, Kotra said. Exports of other mineral resources gained 80 percent.

Fuel including crude oil was the biggest import, increasing 52 percent from a year earlier. Machinery purchases rose 38 percent, while imports of electrical appliances gained 43 percent.

North Korea’s trade with South Korea, which isn’t included in total figures, increased 14 percent to $1.9 billion in 2010, as South Korean firms at the Gaeseong complex increased production, the agency said. Products made at the complex are shipped across the border to South Korea and counted as trade.

Countries trading with North Korea included Russia, Germany, India, Thailand, Singapore, Bangladesh, Italy and Mexico, according to Kotra.
 

ABC78

Junior Member
Hey guys here's a panel at the Center for a New American Security discussing the economic and security situation in China and the Koreas.

U.S.-Asia Relations - C-SPAN Video Library
 

Red___Sword

Junior Member
My impression is that Kim has been talking about some kind of economic zone for some time now. So I am not sure he's actually doing it.

About possible tactics. I don't think China wants NK to have nukes. First of all, it's always wise not to share any secret weapons with anyone. Allies can become enemies in no time. No matter how close China is with any of its potential allies, China only wants itself to have nukes if it has any choice. There is no reason for China to want NK to have nukes. Secondly, letting NK have nukes would push SK and Japan to start their nuke programs, which is definitely not what China wants. Plus, having a potentially unstable neighbor with nukes is also not a good thing. So no matter what, China does not want NK to have nukes.

IMHO, one thing China can do now is to bite its time and wait 'til the old Kim goes away, which won't be long. His son should be a lot easier to manipulate. I'm sure China would bride some NK officials close to the young Kim so that Kim can become some kind of a puppet. One huge weakness of the hereditary system that NK (or ancient China and other parts of the world) is that later generations of a powerful leaders are usually spoiled and become weaker and weaker both politically and character-wise. This happens to every dynasty in China's ancient history and in the West as well. I'm sure the same trend would hold in NK.

or China could start a coup and put a China-friendly Kim in the throne. I think China has the capability to pull it off.

Wow, cause you use the same portrait, I almost mis-recognize you with someone else.

I don't know how politically this thread will go, so I would like to apporach this topic more "sensablly":

The location you are from, says "Texas". I am sure you are aware this state used to be part of some-other country, a country actually kind of near-superpower in west hemisphere at that time...

Instead of history BS, "or China could start a coup and put a China-friendly Kim in the throne. I think China has the capability to pull it off." - ever though this kind of things can be happend to your own country? If some foreign power actually makes a move (and success) to "put a puppet on American throne"... It is not saying "history should be set right like this, bla bla bla..."

- It is you guys, talking about "starting a coup at another country", "put a puppet at the throne"... like talk about play video games.

People pissed, people fights back. Texas people pisssed, so broke up from Mexico - Please expect THE SAME THING when you talk about video game type of "chest-thumbing the guys down there, for us".

Yeah, Kim sucks! In certain extends, NK sucks! I agree with you. But if you think one can "dominate" or "manipulate" another, by whatever means, and walks away unharmed... you better keep yourself to the video games, or at least please burden yourself, don't run for president campaign, for the sake of the rest of the already-screwed-enough-world.

Except "your version of solution", I agree with you that Nuke is not a good idea for NK's own sake - too much to screw up the whole region. And for the better sake of the NK itself and the rest of the concerning world, it best keep up the SELF-REFORM, and get some fruit, on its own.

And all those who more or less share the idea "Set NK right, for good", please pray harder to whoever you pray to, that one day someone else is not doing the same thing to you, when all you need, is some fresh air.(People who are crowded, need some fresh air the most.)
 

mr.unknown

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Hey guys here's a panel at the Center for a New American Security discussing the economic and security situation in China and the Koreas.

U.S.-Asia Relations - C-SPAN Video Library

Where's the link? Can you repost?
 

delft

Brigadier
Opps Sorry bout that hers the link.

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An interesting discussion. I'll pick out one point: Some in South Korea are afraid that economic integration of the North with China will make re-unification impossible. The next thought ought to be that re-unification depends on China. The US cannot contribute to re-unification except by getting out of the way.
 
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vesicles

Colonel
I don't know how politically this thread will go, so I would like to apporach this topic more "sensablly":

The location you are from, says "Texas". I am sure you are aware this state used to be part of some-other country, a country actually kind of near-superpower in west hemisphere at that time...

Instead of history BS, "or China could start a coup and put a China-friendly Kim in the throne. I think China has the capability to pull it off." - ever though this kind of things can be happend to your own country? If some foreign power actually makes a move (and success) to "put a puppet on American throne"... It is not saying "history should be set right like this, bla bla bla..."

- It is you guys, talking about "starting a coup at another country", "put a puppet at the throne"... like talk about play video games.

Where did this all come from?? I made the suggestion and got personally attacked? Yes, I live in Texas. Is there anything wrong with that? what does the history Texas have to do with China/NK issue we are discussing? You said you wanted to be sensible, but what you have said made no sense what-so-ever.

People pissed, people fights back. Texas people pisssed, so broke up from Mexico - Please expect THE SAME THING when you talk about video game type of "chest-thumbing the guys down there, for us".

I am not sure why you brought up the history of Texas. BTW, I can't understand what you are saying... Who's chest-thumbing and who's going to break off from whom?? I personally don't see any link between Mexico/Texas and China/NK. If I understand your point correctly, you are implying that Texas independence had something to do with "someone attempting to start a coup in Texas (since this is the point for which I brought up about NK and that you are attacking). Texas did not start an independence move because someone wanted to "start a coup in Texas" and pissed off Texans. Texas wanted to become independent because Mexico at the time wanted to abolish slavery and Texas wanted to keep slavery because it was crucial to its economy at the time. It wanted to leave Mexico because of this disagreement. So if anyone was pissed, it would be Mexican govn't, not Texans. And the US at the time had nothing to do with the conflict. It was almost purely a "domestic issue" between Texas and Mexico. No one was messing with Texas. It was purely a decision made by Texans alone. It was also a decision made by Texans alone that they wanted to join the union and become a state of the US. There was NO coup involved what-so-ever.

Even there was, why can't I bring it up again? As you mentioned, it has happened before. If it has, there is no reason to say that it won't happen again, or it shouldn't happen again.

There have been many incidences in China's history when a puppet was placed on the throne and the real power sat behind the curtain. So Chinese are well familiar with all the technical aspect of this matter.
 
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solarz

Brigadier
The most important reason for China to support NK is to have a buffer zone between it and US influence. If China somehow claimed NK as its own, then NK loses all value as a buffer zone. NK also serves as a very effective tool to bring the US on to the bargaining table, but that value would be lost if China was seen as the "power behind the throne" of NK, since China would then have to take responsibility for NK's actions.

The usefulness of NK lies entirely on its dysfunctional economy (thereby forcing it to rely on China), and its rogue state (making it a thorn to the US and its allies in the region).
 

delft

Brigadier
@ vesicles
Indeed the Texans fought for freedom, the freedom to keep slaves. BTW the Texan, who came out of the Southern states of the US, wanted to grow cotton, but they couldn't find enough water for that crop, so they didn't need as many slaves as
they expected.

By treating North Korea as a rogue state the US strengthens the hand of China in the region.
 
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