airsuperiority
Captain
what can we expect from someone like harper anyways? the only thing i agreed with him was the apologies for head tax. everything else? HA!
China and North Korea: What Can China Do?
- Thread starter Finn McCool
- Start date
what can we expect from someone like harper anyways? the only thing i agreed with him was the apologies for head tax. everything else? HA!
airsuperiority
Captain
I actually think foreign pressure only works when the state and the foreign entities are not only not intimate relationship-wise, but also that the foreign force is implementing a policy that attempts to work against something the primary state is attempting to do. The current relationship between US and Japan is not only very intimate, but also serving the opposite: to reinforce Japan. While we can say ANPO may be effective so long Japan doesn't follow a policy to officially declare the SDF into regular armed forces, behind the scenes there are a lot more that is happening.
1. A lot of US neo-con reps and the like will certainly be more than glad to push Japan into a full-military status because they've already associated Japan as their ally, and that to do anything to kill/hold down China will be reasonable/suitable.
2. The ANPO also means US can do Japan's dirty work them.
3. Reason Japan didn't normalize didn't lie in the "pressure" by foreign powers. Rather, it's the protection and luxuries that Article 9 and ANPO provides that led Japan not to normalize. Japan nearly has no legitimate practical reasons to declare regular military in the short-term. It is not too beneficial, if not harmful, to Japan's national security if we see it in a deeper scope. Its "pacifist status" means it will live off the protection of the American nuclear umbrella. Normalizing its SDF will lose them that privilege. In addition, Japan enjoyed a luxury of peacetime within its borders ever since after the war and that's all because of its Article 9. Article 9 , in a sense, prevented Japan from ever embroiling itself in conflicts in conventional means, thus also keeping the Japanese people out of harm's way. (and if we look at this from a geopolitical perspective, we all know Japan simply will never have an enemy if it doesn't attempt to pull off anything stupid. PRC's more interested in making friends with them than hurt them, while SK is even less of a chance to be a true military threat unless their territorial disputes go full-blown. NK and Russia will not do anything in the presence of the US.) Some within Japan don't seem to understand that Article 9 is less of a restriction, but more of a privilege and ticket to safety.
All of these, I would say, shows that foreign boots won't have actually been anything of hindrance to military normalization if it weren't for the benefits. Instead, Japan was further empowered in a sense by US power.
sidenote: Furthermore, I don't think Japan should even ever attempt to normalize until 1. it has become very intimate and friendly with PRC 2.time has passed for some time 3. next time Japan gets its feet wet, it reincarnates itself in the coalition against the primary aggressive state.
- PRC blocked Japan's intentions to become a UNSC permanent, and PRC will continue to undermine Japan's grand goal to be a self-determining great power until Japan learns that the field they want to play in is managed by a UNSC member they had wronged in the past. the ball's not in Japan's court to be nice, or it will never get into the club it wanted to be in so dearly.
My conclusion of Japan: "Japan isn't a bad country. The people are nice, and the food's great. The only thing wrong is its government. It's fucked up, so it made ALL the difference."
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Red___Sword
Junior Member
Well said, I actually agree (the "situation description" you made), but you maybe not noticed I used the word "militarism" instead of "normalize".
Chinese people have this good habit of "Do not fight the tide of historical trends" 历史的潮流，不可抗拒。 From day 1 SDF has been formed at the need to give uncle sam a helping hand so that he can took more troops from Japan into the meat grinder of korean peninsula at 1950's - We identified the historical trends - Japan having a "suitable" military force, is only a matter of time now.
A hardworking (we give them that credit) country being a "normalized" country over international society, is something maybe we are not happy about, but a tide can not be shifted. What worries Chinese people from as early as Chairman Mao who re-opened diplomatic relationship with Japan (which, half his life was fighting Japan), to as late as current administration who shows muscle to the chaotic, fractional, Japanese govt, that don't play "game-changing" trick over Diayu island issues.... what worries Chinese people, is the militarism seeds among the "normalization" vessel.
If one day Japan became "normal", it shall not be as agressive as the imperial japan of the old times. Before that, US is a "goodness" force to keep an eye on Japan's militarism - one thing US WOULD find common, with China.
Of course US also being many other things besides keep Japan's militarism at bay, of these China won't happy about - so back to the topic, as long as US stays at Japan, the line between North and South korea, is the line between China and America, "room for tolerance" (龙腾网，如果你们要翻译，请保留这个词组的原文，让读者自己品味) in the global strategic chess play. (And Japan being "normal", is exactly a "game-changing" plot, as you can see)
Edit:
I agree with your sidenot point 1;
Point 2 means nothing, you are talking to Chinese people;
Point 3 won't happen until the whole world is suffering the "game-changing" scenario, and Japan won't necessary at the good end, again.
Your conclusion of Japan, might add "the girls are pretty", as you have showed signs when you comments on China mainland's internet censorship over porn issue, some other thread, some other time.
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airsuperiority
Captain
sidenote 2 means that like a wound, time lessens the pain, and it is undeniably effective. sure we can say today we still remember and still hate them or whatsoever, but the fact is, more people would have been more willing to forgive them than in the past. (i said forgive, not forget), and this also means we are more likely to accept them as time passes, than when the feeling is fresh. this is of course provided nothing new arises to remind the people to be angry at them or to stir up the hate. This is why the Diet is very low-profile about their past, and why CCP does the same thing in regards to June 4th, except much more advanced stage which incorporates censorship and not teaching about this incident in academic materials. In that regards, we Chinese are no better than the Japanese, but this is also because we are both, very similar culture, and share that same mentality regarding "face". It's so-called embarrassing stuffs that neither wants to bring up, and they're doing the very same actions for their respective scars they hope eventually can be put behind them and inside the closet permanently. The problem of doing this is, not only are neither cultures too mature in dealing with "shame", but also counterproductive as chances to repeat a mistake is higher when you are ignorant of what goes. The difference between June 4th and Japanese behaviors in the first half of the last century would be, June 4th affects domestic population primarily, while what IJ did affected all its neighbors. (the magnitude of damages is also equivalent of richter 3 vs a richter 9). I'm done explaining that.
Point 3: Agreed for first half of the sentence. Second part: No one knows the future, so there's nothing we can say. If it happens, let's hope they are on the good side, shan't we?
(it's never a bad idea to have 1 more friend than enemy, as well as seize the chance for some good changes)Last remark of yours: Why will I even say that? It's useless. "people's nice, food's good" is same as "nice and sunny"...it's a figure of speech, although the pun is also true. I've gotten along with Japanese people as well as taken academic courses on Japan taught by a Japanese professor.
Taking those courses are very important because I can learn to understand from their perspective and what they see.
If you try to discuss IR WITHOUT first attempting to understand and learn the other, you will never get anywhere further than what a narrow-minded neo-conservative bigot may understand about China.
Do they understand the story? No. Do they truly know the Chinese people? No. So what do they know? Bashing. Are we not treating the Japanese the same? As for the people, I can say that so far all the ones I've met are all nice. They have never shown any rudeness or discriminatory behavior. Can we say the same about us Chinese? Not at all. One of my Japanese friends told me that at one time, she's afraid to identify her true ethnicity because she feared bashing, and another time a Chinese girl stopped being her friend as soon as that girl realized she's a Japanese. It's a pity. We boasted of how magnificent our 5000 year old culture is, but we're so unforgiving. That, to me, is not how a "great civilization" should roll.
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Red___Sword
Junior Member
Before you read too much into it, the "Point 2 means nothing, you are talking to Chinese people;" thing, I am not talking about hatred which always slips your mind, I am talking about Chinese people by the magnificent 5000 years of civilization, knows how to judge people (country), not merely by time, but by the combination of actions and mentalities of a society. - Besides the distinctive militarism have had been suppressed, we didn't seem much changes that rooted the mentalities of these islander people. - So we know it time alone, affects little.
Now I would wish some dedicated threads open to discuss the China-Japan issues, but I did realized what this thread is talking about and made several attempts to divert it back.
Shall we back to the "How a good chance that everyone can bash NK while no one would directly stood out for it" topic?
The 38 line is there, what else?
Now I would wish some dedicated threads open to discuss the China-Japan issues, but I did realized what this thread is talking about and made several attempts to divert it back.
Shall we back to the "How a good chance that everyone can bash NK while no one would directly stood out for it" topic?
The 38 line is there, what else?
airsuperiority
Captain
Sorry but there's no way I'll buy that paragraph you've said up there. I can start another hugeass response, but I need to sleep so I'll ignore that comment this time. Food for thought for you: How many times had we been wrong in history, just because we were thinking in your mentality?
Red___Sword
Junior Member
I'll wash ears and waiting for the lessons.
Pointblank
Senior Member
However, the crisis did start in one nation, and had negative ramifications for other nations in the region, especially if that one nation has a major role in the local or global economy. In today's global economy, weakness in one nations' economy has a quick spillover effect into other nations. For example, the Russian Financial Crisis was triggered by the Asian Financial Crisis, and it spread to a number of ex-Soviet states. The recent Financial Crisis started in the US and quickly spread to every nation around the world. If South Korea suffers a major economic crisis, you can bet that the Chinese will feel the crisis hard.
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airsuperiority
Captain
You're lucky I'm a Chinese, so I know what you're trying to say. Sorry to break it to you, but I suddenly find this the best opportunity to dictate the instances where your writing confuses us. This sentence of yours is the best example. You pulled this out from the expression 洗耳恭听, but you can't literally direct-translate that into English. It doesn't make sense, and it doesn't exist. The closest you can get would have been "I'm all ears", so maybe next time try that instead. Furthermore, Blitizio mentioned to you at one time that we are normal folks, so we all speak with basic/commonly used phrases. Please stick to those UNTIL/UNLESS you are using a jargon that we should all be familiar with in this community (example, AAM or AWACS. someone who doesn't even know what those means won't even be qualified to enter threads of those respective words) or that it's your major. Even then, it's still better to use simple languages unless you're gonna follow it up with an explanation. Sorry to break this to you all the sudden, but I do hope it helps.
Oh and by the way, if you use "will" in the beginning of that sentence, you shouldn't switch tense in the middle, such as "waiting". It would have been "I'll wash ears and await your lessons" or something. Even then, if I don't know what you try to say, I'd wonder why you need to wash your ears.
No, one has to look at the size and nature of those links between countries. Just look at the the RFC, it was in part due to the sharp drop in the price of oil, was that bad for China? As I stated in my post, look at the what SK imports and what it exports as well as China's trade deficit with it. From China's POV SK is only a small market yet its a major global competitor which includes auto, shipping and oil. The US connection to the rest of the world is obvious, but SK is a whole different story. If anything there are many economic opportunities for China in such a crisis.