CHESS: US positioning there chess piece around China

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The_Zergling

Junior Member
Ok, good points here, but if you argue that way it's difficult to be in a position to defend Taiwan at all. Because There are perhaps only 2-4 aircraft ready to take off on short notice and not the whole SQ. Those numbers are insufficient anyway. That means you need to have a CVN close by all the time, and one is at least in the area anyway (forward deployed to Japan). So I think the Raptors are there to be a good suplement.

2 to 4 aircraft are for each airfield, not the entire island. From what I've heard from my friends in the Taiwan military (not Air Force though, so make of this what you may) Taiwan constantly has radar trained on areas where Chinese fighters patrol, and generally will always respond to a Chinese flight with one of his own. The distance to the middle line of the strait (DMZ?) is constantly monitored, and if Chinese fighters get a bit closer then more flights are launched.

This may not be a sufficient defense should a full-scale air raid be launched, but basically it means that the Taiwanese will probably always have some sort of early warning system preparing them to brace for the first wave of attack, and then react accordingly.

In a first wave I wouldn't imagine Raptors to be all that useful, however as it is doubtful that a single wave would be able to immobilize the entire ROCAF, subsequent strikes would have to be made and for maximum effectiveness, around the clock to take advantage of the ROCAF's limited resources and equipment. Here F-22s supplementing Taiwanese fighters would come in handy.
 

Vlad Plasmius

Junior Member
Sorry, again, we disagree. The logisitics of mounting a large "surprise" attack, and then the necessary logistics of maintaining it will not go unnnoticed IMHO. That entire area is under constant surveillance scrutiy.

The ROCAF will allso be there with their own aircraft to interdict as will the anti-air defenses they have amassed...and I would not discount them.

It is most likely that the "surprise" attack will be launched from ballistic missiles by the scores that are already there and require little preparation. Trying to get hundreds of aircraft into the air at one time is a different matter.

My guess is that an initial attack will be defended by the ROCAF princially, but then the US will be on scene and any air superiority will shift back...amking the invasion virtually impossible. but those are all simply my own opinions.

I consider ballistic missiles as a likelihood, but I doubt they'd be used as extensively as you may believe. I also believe they would not be used without it being in conjunction with an air attack. I'm thinking a ballistic missile attack aiming at airbases and air defenses, mainly those away from major civillian areas would be the first of the strikes to land.

However, quickly following up would be LS-6s and DH-10s. LS-6s being aimed at many of the air defenses in place and some other strategic air defense assats. HARMs would be right behind those and involve KH-31Ps and YJ-91s. Then cruise missiles would come in and finally the actual few squadrons of aircraft for air attack would come in.

A first wave configured as such would be incredibly deadly. The intial ballistic missiles could severely damage airbases and possibly destroy aircraft as well as personnel. They would also cause damage to early warning radar and air defense. The following LS-6s would be impossible to intercept and as a result they would be target towards air defense batteries, the most capable and some of the shorter-range weapons. Then HARMs would target early warning radars and air defense radars. After that cruise missiles would move in on the severely reduced capabilities and target many more defense facilities, some air and air defense other more important logistical centers and, in particular weapons depots.

Finally a few squadrons of aircraft would fly in to take out any and all fighters launched as well as AWACs.

If anyone can find a significant flaw in that specific scenario, please tell me. I think in essence it is sound, however. With that kind of capability and Taiwan relying so heavily on foreign weapons in insufficient supplies a significant Chinese air attack and especially any major attacks on weapons storage would be damning to them.

This all capable of being achieve from significant distance and in plenty of time to retreat into the safety of Chinese air space.

The_Zergling

2 to 4 aircraft are for each airfield, not the entire island. From what I've heard from my friends in the Taiwan military (not Air Force though, so make of this what you may) Taiwan constantly has radar trained on areas where Chinese fighters patrol, and generally will always respond to a Chinese flight with one of his own. The distance to the middle line of the strait (DMZ?) is constantly monitored, and if Chinese fighters get a bit closer then more flights are launched.

This may not be a sufficient defense should a full-scale air raid be launched, but basically it means that the Taiwanese will probably always have some sort of early warning system preparing them to brace for the first wave of attack, and then react accordingly.

In a first wave I wouldn't imagine Raptors to be all that useful, however as it is doubtful that a single wave would be able to immobilize the entire ROCAF, subsequent strikes would have to be made and for maximum effectiveness, around the clock to take advantage of the ROCAF's limited resources and equipment. Here F-22s supplementing Taiwanese fighters would come in handy.

Which is why I'm considering it in terms of waves of weapons in the initial attack. Taiwan can only see maybe 200 miles inland at best.

The first attack being DH-10, LACMs, launched from well beyond Taiwanese radar range, the next being LS-6s, launched from significant range to be difficult to detect before they've launched at which point reaction time will be measure in minutes. Then would be HARMs, which would have ot bring aircraft close to mid-point, even slightly over, but they would do so quickly and quickly retreat. In addition, before any aircraft are in detection distance my thoughts would be that a ballistic missiles attack would be launched on all major airbases, an emphasis on weapon storage. This would severely inhibit the ability for the ROCAF to respond to any flights from bases near the straits the attacks on weapons would also inhibit their ability to do anything even if they can scramble some fighters.
 
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D

Deleted member 675

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Vlad, we don't know how many LACMs or DH-10s China has. To rely upon them to the point where they influence all subsequent events isn't sensible. For the LS-6, that's got a range of what - 40km? The aircraft carrying them would be detected by Taiwanese radar long before they were launched, so you need to increase the Taiwanese response time.

Anyway, then what? Assuming everything goes to plan and the ROCAF is smashed in a matter of hours (nothing ever goes to plan), how long is it going to take to mobilise the necessary units for a ground invasion?

If China had started mustering before the missile attacks, Taiwan would have been on alert and the US would be preparing its own response.

If China only then started assembling men and equipment, the US would still have time to respond, and Taiwanese forces could repair their bases and prepare for the attack.
 
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Vlad Plasmius

Junior Member
Vlad, we don't know how many LACMs or DH-10s China has. To rely upon them to the point where they influence all subsequent events isn't sensible. For the LS-6, that's got a range of what - 40km? The aircraft carrying them would be detected by Taiwanese radar long before they were launched, so you need to increase the Taiwanese response time.

LS-6 can have its range extended to 300 kilometers. As for how many, well If they have a few dozen that's enough. At any rate, removing the radar and air defense ships would be achievable without LS-6s or DH-10s and destroying airbases would be attainable with ballistic missiles and special forces, those that don't seize some of the airfields.

Anyway, then what? Assuming everything goes to plan and the ROCAF is smashed in a matter of hours (nothing ever goes to plan), how long is it going to take to mobilise the necessary units for a ground invasion?

If China had started mustering before the missile attacks, Taiwan would have been on alert and the US would be preparing its own response.

If China only then started assembling men and equipment, the US would still have time to respond, and Taiwanese forces could repair their bases and prepare for the attack.

THe problem is, achieving complete air dominance would come quickly. The idea would be to launch a massive attack on Taiwan air and naval assets in the first attack and, if not destroying them, preventing their use in a subsequent naval blockade. Deploying naval forces would not take long and deploying special forces and establishng some beachheads would all be possible with Zubrs or 071s. Then a naval blockade in force with significant air support could launch tens of thousands of troops to create one or two defensible beachheads and control specific airbases and radar installations that are not destroyed. As I'm aware there are 30,000 airborne troops and around 10,000 Marines as well as thousands of special force. Add in some conventional forces and there can be a massive invasion force launched quickly and effectively.

Their rapid reaction units in the three nearby province number in the range of about 150,000 I think. Those are supposed to be able to completely prepare in mere days if needed. So in less than a week I think China could be fully capable of invading Taiwan with little warning.

In the end F-22s would not do much good in such small numbers they would be. We'd either have to land them in Taiwan, thus leaving them incredibly vulnerable, or make round trips to the airspace. I doubt we'd be able to refuel 24 F-22s constantly from the air they would also be incredibly exposed at that time too. Chances are F-22s would have to be out of air combat for some brief time periods.

We can't fight Taiwan's war for them. That's why we're so strict on them purchasing weapons. If they aren't able to defend themselves in some capacity then we won't do it for them.

That being the case, what I'm talking about makes the placement of F-22s little more than a show of force because it won't be much good in any other way, unless we decided to attack China itself.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Gentlemen, If you want to keep this thread open discontinue the ROC Vs PRC chit chat. We all know how those threads wind up.>>> IN FLAMES<<<. Otherwise I will close this thread.:nono:

Discuss the US forces positioning & re-positioniong in the Pacific and their capablities.


bd popeye super moderator

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