CHESS: US positioning there chess piece around China

My response was meant to stimulate the discussion. I'm sorry if there was an misunderstanding.

The problem with updating older stockpiles of missiles is the rocket motors. As rocket motors get older they have a tendenacy to develop cracks. Once the rocket motor has cracks it is useless because it will explode before it reaches the target.

If the Iranians do have any Pheonix missiles I bet they are some sort of updated clones. It would be very intersting to see the re-designed AIM-54 if it did indeed exist.

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Well, Iran has been very adept at finding parts through black market sources and has worked on producing the parts themselves. I think you underestimate the Iranians, though.

Which, could mean that's exactly why we have F-22s in Japan and not near Iran. While some attention is given to their nuclear developments, which have yet to produce weapons, as far as we know, their general military abilities haven't been.

While AWACS might be able to mitigate the Phoenix threat, that depends solely on an attack happening on terms we can set.

As such, I think it's strange that with the recent arms buildup near Iran that F-22s are being deployed near China.

Vlad Plasmius said:

Well, Iran has been very adept at finding parts through black market sources and has worked on producing the parts themselves. I think you underestimate the Iranians, though.

While AWACS might be able to mitigate the Phoenix threat, that depends solely on an attack happening on terms we can set.

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This is not a matter of underestimating the Iranians. IMHO, it is just highly unlikely, nearly impossible, for the Iranians to have maintained their AIM-54 stocks since 1979for very practical and obvious reasons. They did not develope the system and they have had no support and no replacement parts from the people who did for over 27 years.

It is equally unlikely, despite what is said on Iranian forums and in Tom Cooper's book, that the Iranians have cloned a Phoneix missile to anything close to its original capability. Originally, as difficult as the missile and fire control systems were to operate, Iran depended heavily on American technicians. After the coup, when the Americans left, they took most of the expertise about how to operate and maintain the Phoenix with them. In addition, the support directly from Hughes Aircraft Missile Systems Group ended, along with corresponding spares and upgrades. Without those, even a technically competent Air Force would have difficulty keeping the weapons operational, particularly over so many years.

IMHO, the Iranians would come closer to the capability by buying some AA-9, Amos, missiles from the Russians which I would much more easily believe and count as a threat...but there are no intelligence indications that the Russians have ever exported that technology to the Iranians to my knowledge.

What the Iranians have developed on their own in terms of a LRAAM may well be up for question, but I would be very surprised if they had anything remotely close to the capability of the AIM-54 that they themselves have developed, tested, produced, and successfully deployed, but that's just my opinion

Ah ha... :rofl: this thread seems about to go off topic. Its title is "CHESS: US positioning there chess piece around China" but now people are discussing about iranian's anti-air missile capability... ff

SteelBird said:

Ah ha... :rofl: this thread seems about to go off topic. Its title is "CHESS: US positioning there chess piece around China" but now people are discussing about iranian's anti-air missile capability... ff

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You are quite right. The original context of these statements was why the F-22 near China when there is this supposed capabilty in Iran...which has drawn us off to discussing Iran. Thanks for the "gentle" reminder.

This is not a matter of underestimating the Iranians. IMHO, it is just highly unlikely, nearly impossible, for the Iranians to have maintained their AIM-54 stocks since 1979 for very practical and obvious reasons.

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So explain all the photos and eyewitness accounts showing F-14s flying with Phoenix missiles.

While you can throw doubt around a lot, this is just one point. Under the circumstances an attack on Iran by F-22s would have much higher chances of success than if it was done by F-18s, F-15s, or F-16s.

So, it seems odd to place F-22s there at a time when pressure is growing on Iran.

Vlad Plasmius said:

So explain all the photos and eyewitness accounts showing F-14s flying with Phoenix missiles.

While you can throw doubt around a lot, this is just one point. Under the circumstances an attack on Iran by F-22s would have much higher chances of success than if it was done by F-18s, F-15s, or F-16s.

So, it seems odd to place F-22s there at a time when pressure is growing on Iran.

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I bet that the USAF is glad that the Shah didn't choose to order the F-15. The link said that was an option. Those would cause a lot more headaches. I personally think that the IRIAF has been able to keep a few Phoneixes in service. I can't really say why, just that they have been able to keep all the other Western systems they have in at least some form of service so I don't see why they couldn't do the same with the Phoneix.

As for the real topic of this thread, I've read that USN DDGs frequently make port calls in Taipei, for obvious reasons. Is this true? Popeye, do you have any info on this?

Vlad Plasmius said:

So explain all the photos and eyewitness accounts showing F-14s flying with Phoenix missiles.

While you can throw doubt around a lot, this is just one point. Under the circumstances an attack on Iran by F-22s would have much higher chances of success than if it was done by F-18s, F-15s, or F-16s.

So, it seems odd to place F-22s there at a time when pressure is growing on Iran.

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Do you know for a fact that those are operational Phoenix missiles? For all of the reasons I stated I have severe doubt regarding that , and will continue to do so until I see something a lot more compelling than a few photos...like the actual data and telemetry of the engagements or live tests that can be examined by third party technicains.

Anyhow, this thread is not about Iran and the US positioning there, it is about China and so I will choose to go back on tpoic.

So explain all the photos and eyewitness accounts showing F-14s flying with Phoenix missiles.

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ff More than likely they are old photos. If not can someone please post recent IAF pictures? That would clear that up. Well sorta.

I'm sure the Shah was sold training missiles. Which are the same except they have no explosive warhead. Why training missiles. AIM-54 was very expensive. Besides with a training missile you can turn it on and get a tone to simulate a dogfight.ff

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I'm also guilty of going ff Let us stay on topic.
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As for the real topic of this thread, I've read that USN DDGs frequently make port calls in Taipei, for obvious reasons. Is this true? Popeye, do you have any info on this?

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Years ago(25-35) the USN made regular port calls in Taipei ROC. No CV's. The water was to shallow. But port calls are no longer made. I do not know why. Could be politics.

I will check navy.mil to be sure.

The photos I'm talking about come from last September.

I just think the decision not to deploy F-22s to the Middle east will turn out to be a bad decision for the U.S. if our guys decided to start tussling with Iran.

I doubt they moved F-22s to Japan for fear of North Korea.

Vlad Plasmius said:

I doubt they moved F-22s to Japan for fear of North Korea.

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As I stated more detailed in post #4, how about unconventional ISR in/around NK, China?
Or perhaps show the Raptor to the japanese military.